car wont start

[5spdFTW]

so i got my eclipse and after 180 miles of driving it wont start. it sat in a lot for a while but i put new gas in it and it ran till it hit the 1/4 tank mark, the same amount of fuel i had when i got the car, and then it started messing up. it would die randomly and start back up in a few minutes then it just wouldnt start. i found vacuum lines that where disconnected etc. i went throught a diganosis process of my own by looking through here and in a Haynes manual for the car. i believe the plugs are bad from over heating due to vacuum lines and insufficent cooling. i plan on replaceing the fuel filter and spark plugs tomorrow to see if the car will start. after that i plan on looking into the fuel pump b/c i dont hear it pump when i turn the key to "on" but the fuses are good for the fuel system. i will also do a radiator flush b/c of bad cooling and bad coolant. thats all i really have and i hope that i followed the right path of troubleshooting so i'd like some input on that.

also the car has a bad oil leak, like 2 qts in like 2 days after i changed the oil ($20 of castrol GTX high milage disapeard ) but there is no spot under the car and the car does not smoke as much as it should if it were burning that much oil. i hope its not leaking into the cooling system some how, cause the fluid in the raditor is almost black. a friend told me this might happen but i doubt it) it doesnt seem to leak unless the car is runing, b/c there is no compression in the engine ofcourse. it might also be leaking from the head gasket, hope the head didnt warp from heat


can you all suggest something i missed???

thanks a lot

 

[absolute_DSM]

If youre coolant is black, getting the car started should be the last thing youre about to fix on this journey.

How bad is it overheating, and why are you driving it if its overheating?

Do a compression check and post the results here. I wouldnt do anything until you do a compression test. In fact, if you have funny looking milky coolant (oil with coolant) your head gasket is most likely gone.

 

[mitsocruiser]

if your head gaskets leaking oil in your radiator the water would be yellowish brown and thick looking other than that it sounds like your headed in the right direction with every thing else.Best of luck

 

[Jetrosr]

Does the Check engine light (CEL) come on when you turn the key to run? Should come on for a few seconds then go out. If not do some research on bad capacitors in the ECU. My turbo car is dead from leaking capacitors in the engine and trans computers. Similar symptoms.

If it ends up being the ECU, wiseman Steve is your man, check his website.

 

[5spdFTW]

absolute_dsm - the car doesnt overheat from what i can tell by the gauges in the car and from the smell/look of things when it was runing. the coolant may be better than i think it is and its just me being blind/stupid.


mitsocruiser - the coolant could be the color you are describing i will have the oil pan (oil leak) and head gasket looked at when i can get the car to a shop.

jet - i dont think the light stays on, but hope to god its not the ECU i will start crying

thanks for the fast responses, it was less than 10 minutes and i had 3 replies with useful info.

 

[Jetrosr]

I would hope for a computer before a headgasket! What I was asking is if the light comes on at all. The car checks to make sure the bulb is ok everytime you turn the key. If it comes on and goes out the ECU shoud not be an issue (never know on a 17 yr old car), start checking your basics, spark, fuel, compression. If it doesn't come on at all, then the ECU and related wiring should be your best area to begin checking.

The black coolantis well, I don't know. Some of the the Japanese coolant is really dark green if your used to American cars. If oil was mixing with it, it would look like a Starbucks cappacino.

 

[5spdFTW]

ok, i understand now. i am fairly certain it comes on and then goes off, like it should.

well, i only have so much $$$. i bought the car for $1350 so it was a good price and i sold my old car for $2200 so i still have about $700 left to spend on the car to get it in good reliable condition. then i will start upgrading it a bit.

 

[Jetrosr]

I wouldn't put parts on until you know whats wrong; plugs, filters, coolant etc. none of those things will show the symptoms you described, and on a small budget, you don't want to end up buying them twice.

Definitely start with the basic checks. Pull a plug and see if it is wet or even smells like gas. If the plugs are soaked, then look at spark. If the plugs are dry, look at fuel. Normally major compression loss will give you some kind of indicator when it goes away; clutter bang pop timing belt, white smoke head gasket, blue smoke rings/burning oil.

 

[absolute_DSM]

i believe the plugs are bad from over heating due to vacuum lines and insufficent cooling.

i will also do a radiator flush b/c of bad cooling and bad coolant.

i hope its not leaking into the cooling system some how, cause the fluid in the raditor is almost black.

it might also be leaking from the head gasket, hope the head didnt warp from heat

But you say its not overheating/having a cooling problem?

absolute_dsm - the car doesnt overheat from what i can tell by the gauges in the car and from the smell/look of things when it was runing. the coolant may be better than i think it is and its just me being blind/stupid.

Did I miss something?

OP, you said your coolant is black. You are not blind. THAT is a big problem. Just do a compression test - very simple and I bet you wont be surprised with very low numbers if any numbers at all. How does it crank over? Sound pretty slow?

Do not start looking for electrical issues! Your car has a mechanical problem! IMO That is the main priority.

 

[Jetrosr]

Do not start looking for electrical issues! Your car has a mechanical problem! IMO That is the main priority.

I agree, mechanical is priority. I haven't experienced black coolant, so disregard my comments and see what absolute has to say...

 

[tqmx1]

Change subject slightly, Jet did you get your ECU glitch fixed?

 

[5spdFTW]

^pm him please


well i will look at the indicators that you guys have given me

-the car cranks fine- i almost killed the battery by tring to start it but i charged it and it still cranks fine
-as to the coolant i know that it is not in good shape but the car should atleast start even if there isnt good cooling. the gauges in the car say temp is fine and i have good heat and A/C still. i wont run it for long until i get the cooling system flushed
- i dont remember the spark plugs being wet or smelling of fuel so i am pretty sure its a fuel problem. the fuses were ok, but i dont hear the pump so i am thinking replacement of the pump???? the car never idled well unless i gave it some gas from the pedal and towards the time when it stopped running it would idle at 1500+ rpm. i think the ECU was doing that to keep the car from dying.

i will also look into the vacuum hose diagram on the hood and see if i can get the hoses connected together again correctly. i think that also contributed to the overheating of the engine due to a lean fuel mixture. that was what the haynes manual i have said because the picture of the spark plugs in the back of the book matched the plugs i pulled out and had coinciding causes with known issues in the car.


should i still do the compression test since i am nearly convinced its a fuel issue? i have seen some guides on checing compression but i do not have the tool to put into the spark plug hole to check the compression. i suppose i can rent one from Autozone??? if not what would it cost to buy the tool?

 

[5spdFTW]

so i am looking into getting a fuel pump today or tomorrow,

can anyone suggest anything else i might need to pick up??

 

[5spdFTW]

so i took out the fuel filter and then tested the pump and the fuel pump works, replaced the old fuel filter with a new one so the fuel system is good from the tank to the fuel rail. also got new spark plugs and new plug wires.


CAR STILL WONT START!!!


possible no spark on the new plugs and wires????

easist way to check fuel/spark/compression??

need this car to run for work/school within a week.

 

[Jetrosr]

Did you verify the correct fuel pressure? You can have fuel, but no pressure. A good way to determine a fuel problem is a small shot of carb cleaner in the throttle body while someone cranks the engine.

 

[5spdFTW]

we used starting fluid and it wouldnt start. we put it right into the intake and it wouldnt fire, even after we replaced the shitty plugs and wires.

the car made a high pitch noise before it died from the front side of the engine, where the belts are and it died suddenly and wouldnt restart even if i tried to pop the clutch or start it like normal.

as to fuel, we took of the filter and cranked the engine and it made a nice fountain of fuel about 4 inches high from the fuel line from the tank so i think there is pressure.i just dont know if there is a clog or what.



----------------------------------------------------

sooooooooooooooooo, i found a 4G63 from a Talon and i am thinking about saving all my troubles with starting the engine and with the extensive oil leaks it has (2 qts in 2 days) currently and buying the new engine. the car i have has 242k miles on it and i have not found any records confirming and engine swap sooooooooooo i would like to see if i can do this.

here is the engine:

eBay Motors: JDM 4G63 MITSUBISHI EAGLE TALON NON TURBO ENGINE ONLY (item 310019715459 end time Feb-08-08 16:58:39 PST)

will it go in my 91 eclipse? i am fairly sure that my car, production year 1990, has the 6 bolt engine in it. i want this to be a direct bolt up to save on labor costs cause i am not going to attempt this myself.

 

[Jetrosr]

the car made a high pitch noise before it died from the front side of the engine, where the belts are and it died suddenly and wouldn't restart even if i tried to pop the clutch or start it like normal.

Critical missing information... With the miles, your going to need a bigger budget if you want to auto-X, much less just drive on the street. Absolute was right, mechanical failure. Replacing the engine is probably the best course of action. I bet it cranks real fast, just like the plugs are out.

Also, you're looking for trouble testing fuel that way. Stick with the procedures in the Haynes manual when you're testing. There's a reason for them, and sidestepping will just leave you guessing and replacing unnecessary parts.

 

[Got Rice Galant]

Once you put that motor in your car the timing belt's going to break on that one too and you'll still be in the same spot. Why don't you pull the timing cover off and see if it jumped or the belt broke. Pull the head and see how many valves you bent. If the valves didn't take out the pistons, just buy a head for it. I've seen rebuilt heads on ebay for as low as $275 shipped.

If you tear apart the ruined motor it will help you get familiar with everything and will help you diagnose problems in the future.

 

[5spdFTW]

i am familiar with the workings of engines.

just thought of timing today.... i will check the belt ASAP, thank god for the easy to tremove plastic cover.

also if you look at the last pic of that engine is says 4G67 on the block which is listed as the evo motor i believe? i looked it up and it seemed to be the 1.8L DOHC evo motor. is that a direct bolt on?? in any case i am interested in replaceing just the head.

ill go look now.

 

[5spdFTW]

i checked the timing belt and it doesnt turn. we tried to crank the engine with the timing cover off and the cams and belt dont turn. we hope the belt is just stripped due to it being old and improperly installed or increased friction from the engine due to low oil from the leak, hopefully. im gonna have someone look at it then i will take it to a shop and see about a new timing belt and rebuilding the head and finding the oil leak

whats an estimated cost to replace the timing belt at a shop?

 

[Jetrosr]

Most places are going to want to tear it down before they give an estimate. There is just no way to know whats going on in there until it comes apart.

 

[Got Rice Galant]

If you're going to own a dsm you need to become a self taught mechanic. Nows the time to learn. Start pulling the timing components off then pull the head and see what carnage you have.

 

[5spdFTW]

got rice galant- i dont have the time to do that. im 17 yrs old. and i run the risk of messing it up.

im not planning on ever doing heavy mods to the car, specially with so many miles on it.

jet- i figured they would, but it all costs money

 

[5spdFTW]

bump