Resolved NEED HELP WITH FIRST START!!!!!! injectors not working

[rjdavis21]

I just rebuilt a 93 non turbo 4g63 talon and went to start it up but it just turns over. Has fuel(pump turns on and runs through the rail), has spark(sprayed starter fluid in filter and it fired). It has everything but the fuel injectors are not working. I cannot figure out why. They have 12volts to them but assuming the computer isnt sending the ground to make them fire. Any and all help would be great on what to check for or what is wrong!!!! THANKS!!!

 

[poonman]

Thats were I would start my friend, do a resistance check on the wires to make sure you have no breaks. Do you have a SAFMS?

 

[rjdavis21]

no its all bone stock...could it have anything to do with the way the cam sensor was installed? i just put it on, it wasnt aligned with anything like top dead center or anything...

 

[poonman]

I doubt it, i would start with the basics first so you dont stress to much, just work on the injector pulse and see if you are even getting the shot. Could be something right under the old nose. Ill get you the schematics for the injectors too.

 

[poonman]

I found it

 

[rjdavis21]

ok so now so far ive tested the injectors and they work. checked the plug on the CAS and got the correct readings 6.5v 1st prong 6.5v 2nd prong 12v 3rd prong and continuity on the 4th prong. there is fuel running to the injectors they are just not being told to open. i think im narrowing it down to the CAS being bad but wanted to play with any other ideas like the computer. which one could it more be in this situation???

edit: guess im looking to know if the ground signal comes right from the CAS to the injectors or if it goes from the CAS to the computer then from the computer to the injectors.

 

[absolute_DSM]

Do you have your resistor box plugged in?

 

[rjdavis21]

what is that and where is it located? this is a NON turbo...

 

[rjdavis21]

so pulled the fuel rail with the CAS off and turned it by hand all injectors fired gas so everyhting is working car just wont start. does have same gas in it from 2 years ago tho.... any suggestions??

 

[HIGHPSI4]

Well dead gas does not really help here but should not keep it from running. Right now I would check your timing. If you have fuel and spark then the compression may not be right.

 

[rjdavis21]

checked compression and is 195 all across, timing is fine....still not sure whats going on

 

[poonman]

but you said you can get it to start if you disconect the injectors then re connect them, do you think this may be an AIr issue instead of fuel?

Also yes highpsi is right, you should get some new gas.

 

[luv2rallye]

no its all bone stock...could it have anything to do with the way the cam sensor was installed? i just put it on, it wasnt aligned with anything like top dead center or anything...

It must be aligned.
http://simon.chi.il.us/~steve/Auto/DSM/CAS.gif
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207097#post151187616

 

[poonman]

so the CAS really does have to be adjusted huh?

 

[rjdavis21]

ok here's what I got .
removed cas today and hooked up noid light to # 1 injector and removed # 1 plug and connect to plug wire and ground at threads
key on turned cas by hand and some times i would get a faint light from noid and sometimes bright and sometimes I could turn cas three times and nothing and and spark was weard to.
check voltege at cas harness and was
3.5v
3.5v
12v
ground

the other day I had 6.5 on 1&2
it went from to high to low now

when I turned on key again this little vacuum switch keeps clicking and something sounds like it winds up somewhere in intake.
I turned the cas again and after about five turns now no noid or spark at all
and no clicking from other injectors or the other strange noises
Im starting to wonder
thought cas might be bad but now harness ecu volts are weard
Im trying to find where that test with 1.5v battery for cas is on the forum.
after that test I will check ecu for leaks

 

[rjdavis21]

I found the 1.5v battery test is for the power transistors o well.
any ideas

 

[rjdavis21]

I want to try another ecm
can you members tell me what ecms will work in this car
does it have to be the same ecm part number or will any 1g 2.0 5spd non turbo work

car is 93 talon non turbo 2.0 5speed
number on ecm is md166255
thanks

 

[cbassgsx]

injector drivers are bad look here http://www.sddsm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12511

 

[rjdavis21]

Man im really confused now . thought all four injectors are controled by ecu ground pulse in relation to hall effect cam sensor
either way the voltage on my cas harness pin 1 and 2 starts out at 3.5v alldata says should be above 4v and starts droping with key on.
injectors will ramdom start clicking and im not even touching anything and cas unplug the # 1 spark plug was arcing all by its self to.
then injector #1 I have it unplug with noid light connected it just lit up and stayed on and I wasn't touching anything then also.
voltage whent down to 1.8 on pin 1&2 and pin 3 was still 12.v
I ohms wiring on pin 2 cas harness to pin 21 on ecu per alldata and good
checked short to ground an none


need info on what ecu I can use .

 

[rjdavis21]

just wanted to throw a solution out there for anyone who has this problem( the voltage on the CAS reading weird and injectors and plugs firing weird or not at all) that it was the computer ECU. After checking almost everything we grabbed a ECU from the junkyard for 25 bucks plugged it in and it fired right up. Thanks for the help guys!!!