how does this timing look?

[linksys42]

How does this timing look? This is on a 7 bolt 99GST. I am questioning it because I have never don the timing on a 2g before and the crank timing marks kind of thru me off because they are different than any timing marks I have ever seen. Thanks

 

[linksys42]

because this is what the crank timing marks look like when the ignition timing mark on the crank pulley is at the "T". And the cam timing on the intake gear is 1/2 tooth up and the exhaust cam is 1/2 tooth down when the ignition timing mark on the crank pulley is at the "T"???? on the other pics above the ignition timming mark on the crank pulley is alittle past the "T" when the real timing marks are alligned. should i just forget about the timing marks on the crank pully? why would they be that much off on the pulley?

 

[Dream On]

Drivetrain Tech?

 

[linksys42]

I didn’t know where else to post, I guess if the moderator could put it over into the correct forum for MECH timing. I would appreciate it. Thanks

 

[Awdboost]

Looks good to me. Look like it done right. All the marks are lined up

 

[linksys42]

but why would the timing mark on the crank shaft pulley be off? with those marks at you see them in the first post lined up the tick mark on the pulley is about 3 or 4 degrees past (ATDC) the TDC mark "T" on the timing scale on the lower timing belt cover? it doesn't make sense at all. something has got to be off. the whole reason i asked the question, is that the car has lost power in low end and the idle is rough and it is spooling really slow.

 

[linksys42]

Is there any way that the crank sprocket backing plate the one that is used by the crank angle sensor can be off (rotated) just by a little bit messing things up?

 

[blcknspo0ln]

looks OK to me, but you need to provide pictures of the BS and oil sprocket too. When I did my timing, the notch was right inline with the timing mark. Your timing may be off half a tooth or so, the only way you will be able to tell is by looking at your other marks too.

 

[linksys42]

just wondering, if the cam gears are dead on, and the crank timing is on, and I stuck the 8mm Philips in the counter balance shaft hole on the back of the block why would I need to check the other marks im not second guessing you but I would like to know why I need to check the other marks so I can understand, because I thought if the crank and the cams where in line then it was ok (timing wise), I just don’t understand why the ignition mark on the crank pulley isn’t lining up with the TDC marks on the timing belt cover? I dint replace the timing belt a very reputable shop up here in Chicago did and yesterday I brought it back into them because of the timing and all the signs of timing being off that’s I have rough idle/miss, low end power is gone (like its struggling), its hard to start, and the turbo starts to spool really early but it really slow getting up there (turbo lag), but the tech who is like the head tech (been there the longest) said it was in time and showed me but it wasn’t, the cams marks were barley staggered, and the timing mark on the pulley was before the "T" TDC mark and I pointed it out and he said its in time the cogs do that there not exact!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and then I just was like what the F@#$% ever (great way to have repeat customers). but when I left the car kind of woke up a little bit and was smooth but then I started it up the next time and it was a really rough start and it was running like before. When I got home last night I pulled it apart and checked it again and when I went to un tension the A/C belt the A/C tensioner was loose and I was like !! I just tightened that last night it couldn’t back out all the way by its self! And then I thought the only way you can get to the plug/hole for the timing belt tensioner tool is to loosen the A/C tensioner so you can get your hand back in there. so what they did is took some tension off the T-belt and moved it a tooth on the cam!!!!! and when I started it the next time it popped/jumped back. that’s the only way I can explain why it woke up for that short drive and the A/C tensioned being all the way out. sorry about the long post im just F@#$% PISSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[manticore33]

Wow. When I have done my timing belts, I just made sure the timing marks on the cam gears, oil pump sprocket, and crank sprocket lined up. Also, I always checked to make sure that the oil pump sprocket is in phase (using the VFAQ method - it rotates towards the timing mark if it is in phase. It rotates away from the timing mark when it is 180 degrees out of phase). Quite honestly, I have never paid any attention to the timing marks on the timing belt cover.

Just go through the timing belt process yourself and verify everything is correct and the tension is set fine. I had a "professional" do my 2g's timing belt once and they got the balance shaft out of phase (even took it in for them to recheck and they assured me it was not out of phase!). If they disconnected your battery, that could cause the low idle while the ECU resets and relearns itself. Check all of your accessory belts for proper tension.

 

[luvmygst]

Is there any way that the crank sprocket backing plate the one that is used by the crank angle sensor can be off (rotated) just by a little bit messing things up?

I think it can be on backwards and that will throw it off. But I forgot how much, it wasnt a whole lot I think. But enough to mess thing up, and its a easy mistake to make.

 

[linksys42]

.Just go through the timing belt process yourself and verify everything is correct and the tension is set fine. I had a "professional" do my 2g's timing belt once and they got the balance shaft out of phase (even took it in for them to recheck and they assured me it was not out of phase!). If they disconnected your battery, that could cause the low idle while the ECU resets and relearns itself. Check all of your accessory belts for proper tension.

the idle is rough but its not low and the ecu hasnt been disconected for awhile, all the belts are tensioned right. thanks

 

[blcknspo0ln]

I think it can be on backwards and that will throw it off. But I forgot how much, it wasnt a whole lot I think. But enough to mess thing up, and its a easy mistake to make.

Actually if your crank trigger plate was off backwards, it would be off by more than 90*. If it's on backwards, then chances are the head will need to be pulled

 

[linksys42]

Actually if your crank trigger plate was off backwards, it would be off by more than 90*. If it's on backwards, then chances are the head will need to be pulled

I doubt that it's on backward, im just going thru things that could be off till I find out what is wrong. The head seems to be fine my compression is 165,165,157,165 it wouldn't be that high and that uniform if my pistons hit the valves. Also I used a mech stethoscope with a piece of vacuum hose attached into the cylinders one at a time and rotated the engine by hand and listenened; I didn't hear the valves hitting the pistons.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

I doubt that it’s on backward, im just going thru things that could be off till I find out what is wrong. The head seems to be fine my compression is 165,165,157,165 it wouldn’t be that high and that uniform if my pistons hit the valves. Also I used a mech stethoscope with a piece of vacuum hose attached into the cylinders one at a time and rotated the engine by hand and listenened; I didn’t hear the valves hitting the pistons.

Oh no, I wasn't saying that you're trigger plate was backwards. I was just stating that IF it were backwards, there would be problems, but I'm sure you know that

 

[linksys42]

If the trigger plate was on backwards wouldn’t it be out 180* ? And I just don’t get it when I got the car back after the t-belt install the cam pulleys, crank pulley timing mark and hash marks “T” on the cover were all DEAD on but now they are off if I line the crank pulley timing mark with the “T” the exhaust cam is ½ tooth below the head plane and the intake is ½ tooth above the head plane, when I take the pulley off the crank trigger plate and timing mark on the case align like the pic below, does that look on? how are the marks in that picture suposed to line up?????? what am i supposed to use as a refference? the vally in the middle of the notch on the trigger plate? aligned with what part of the mark on the casting on the engine? and is it supposed to line up like holding a ruler to the center of the crank? please help. thanks again

 

[blcknspo0ln]

If you've ever taken the trigger plate off, the notch on the plate is at roughly 10 o'clock. When it is backwards, it points more towards 7 o'clock. I tried to transpose (using ghey MSpaint) to what my notch looks like. I believe you will have to take VFAQ's advise and retard the exhaust cam 1/2-1 tooth before tensioning the belt. It mentions to do that in the FAQ.

 

[linksys42]

thanks for all your help blckspooln I really appreciate it, but I am not so concerned with the location of the cams, I am trying to figure out where TDC is on the crank and how the timing mark is supposed to be lined up with the notch in the trigger plate (so I can get a base point to line the cams up to). It was easy lining up the crank timing marks on my 92 tsi 6 bolt because it had a pointer/arrow and it was obvious. I don’t see why they wouldn't put a pointer/arrow instead of a little angled mark that is vague in its orientation. I am going to use paint to show how I am lining it up on the crank sprocket. Let me know if I am doing it right. Thanks again

And in that Pic that you altered of the crank sprocket timing you have a little notch in the cover plate, mine doesn’t have that. it looks like it lines up with the cut edge of the trigger plate. And your mark looks a little closer than mine does. Does mine look off?

Also I had a question to you post about checking the other timing marks balance shaft, oil pump, if the cam gears are dead on, and the crank timing is on, and I stuck the 8mm Philips in the counter balance shaft hole on the back of the block why would I need to check the other marks im not second guessing you but I would like to know why I need to check the other marks so I can understand, because I thought if the crank and the cams where in line then it was ok (timing wise). Thanks again

 

[blcknspo0ln]

The photo that I altered is just a simple cut and paste from the original picture you posted. The only reason I posted that was to show you the general orientation of how the crank trigger plate should look, don't worry about comparing that picture with yours. As far as sticking the screw driver in that is to make sure your your balance shaft and oil pump are in phase. Since they spin at a ration of 3:1, you will notice a horrible vibration if they are not in sync. Timing-wise it won't mess anything up, but then again, mistimed shafts will give you other problems.

 

[linksys42]

ok so how can i know 100% for shure that #1 piston is at TDC on the compression stroke so i can line up every thing else? this is driving me nuts!

 

[linksys42]

Hey I am still trying to figure out my power loss, if any one could shed some light it would be GREATLY appreciated. the reason I am worried is because before all the marks lined up the cams and the crank pulley lined up with the TDC hash mark on the timing cover now the mark on the crank pulley is like 3MM past TDC? But in the picks above the trigger plate mark and timing notch seem to look on? Thanks

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Before you put everything back together, did you rotate the crank 6 revolutions, let sit for 15 minutes, and check your tensioner gap? Are you POSITIVE those marks were on point after you did the aforementioned process? By I mean sure, did you check to see again?

Not being a hardass, just trying to help you out.

 

[linksys42]

Before you put everything back together, did you rotate the crank 6 revolutions, let sit for 15 minutes, and check your tensioner gap? Are you POSITIVE those marks were on point after you did the aforementioned process? By I mean sure, did you check to see again?

Not being a hardass, just trying to help you out.

Don't worry about being a hard ass, at least you answered, I appreciate it.

What happened is I took it to a DSM shop up here where I live. I usually do the timing belt my self but I got the car right before thanksgiving and I need to drive back home to Missouri and the car had 64,000 miles and I didn't want to take the chance of the belt breaking (it was pretty worn) I didn't have the time to do it (had to work). So I took it to this shop when I got it back it was running normal (tip top) but I checked the marks any way by just lining up the crank pulley timing with the hash mark TDC on the timing belt cover and the cam gears. It was right on the money (0). So every thing was good then I started to loose power and it started idling rough about 2 or 3 weeks after I got it back, so I checked the timing and it's a little past the (0) mark TDC about 3-4MM and the plugs are white (lean) (especially #1 and #2). Also something else is very weird I was under my car changing the trany fluid when I noticed oil coming out of my intake filter and draining down the frame???? How is that possible?

 

[linksys42]

Hello, I know this is an old thread but I am still having the partial throttle drivability issues and concerns that the timing isn't right on. And was wondering if anyone might be able to give there opinions on the orientation of the crank timing marks? My old 1g was easy to verify the crank timing marks (a perfect point/arrow) the second gens just have a big gap on the trigger plate and a raised slit/bump on the front block casting and i have never done a 2g mech timing allignment. please help thanks again.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

From the other pictures you posted earlier it looks fine. It should look like this:

http://www.vfaq.com/proj-pics/Tbelt/Tbelt5.jpg

Please explain your partial throttle problems. When you are off a tooth or two, you have problems ALL OF THE TIME, not just under certain conditions. I would guesstimate that mechanical timing is not your problem.