I'm Cookin Now!!!

[punishercb]

Hey everyone, I got my eclipse a few days ago and I took a buddy for a ride. It was about 3 in the mornin so I took my car up to about 90 just to "demonstrate" how my car accelerates I slowed down pretty fast because the road was starting to go over a hill and i could not see what was ahead. Then I let my buddy take her for a spin and he did the same to about 80. But when he tried to stop the brakes got really mushy and when the car stopped, smoke billowed from the wheel wells. It reeked of cooked brakes and I figured it was from stopping from that high of a speed so fast. But I figured it would take more than just a couple of high speed stops to do that. Does anybody have an idea why that was. Do you think it's time for me to replace my brake pads?

Sorry about the long post but I just want to try and figure this problem out before it happens again when I really need my brakes.

 

[IHeartTurbo]

Do you think it's time for me to replace my brake pads?

1. Jack car up.
2. Take wheel off.
3. Look at brake pads.
4. Replace if needed.

 

[punishercb]

Yeah, i know. I wish it were that easy. Except I'm on campus and can't have my car around till this weekend, and i don't have a place to jack the car up and inspect it. I'll be actually looking at it in a few weeks. I'm just trying to narrow down the possiblilities so I know what I'm doing when I do get the time to work on it.

By the way, what should I look for when inspecting the brake pads? Obviously, if their bad they'll be really skinny, but is there anything else I should look for?

 

[mitsubluetalon]

hello. well yeah you look at both sides of your rotor (the shiny metal disc) and check to see the thickness of each pad. they should be AT LEAST about a quater inch thick before you should start thinking about replacing them.

THIS IS IMPORTANT - if one pad looks a lot more worn down than the other, then your caliper is not "floating". meaning that the bolts that allow the caliper to move side to side for the even amount of braking pressure on each pad is not doing so. if they are really uneven then you have to take the two caliper bolts out, degrease them and check to make sure they are still smooth and then check the rubber boots to make sure there are no rips, and then grease the bolts back up and put back in.

if they are about even then thats good. when driving and upon braking do you feel any shimmering or vibrating or feeling like the steering wheel is pulling to one side?

if you can take a good look at your rotor, preferable taking it off, do you see any heat scorch marks? or discolorations? meaning your rotor might be warped being as it is a stock rotor and your pads are putting more friction and pressure on the warped part of the rotor, causing more heat and making it worse.

if your going to replace your pads, then it would be a good idea to have your rotors turned, meaning that a machine shop or most mechanic shops will put your rotors on a metal lathe and take a layer of metal off, taking out any imperfections. cheaper than new rotors and less time comsuming than doing the job twice.

welcome to the DSM world. and good luck......when it happens you'll know you need it....

Jason.
92 TSI AWD.

 

[mitsubluetalon]

oh and your smoking smelly mushy brakes would be due to a lack of quality brake pads and rotors. op for the premium ones and that will decrease the chance of that happening again for your purposes. when you want to start racing or get serious with upgrades then thats when you start looking for the cross drilled rotors and stuff.

Jason.
92 TSI AWD

 

[punishercb]

Thanks alot for the help man. Really helpful! When I brake, the car doesn't pull or vibrate thankfully, so the rotors aren't warped. I'll probably get better performing brake pads, which brings up another question. I know there are normal brake pads, and then something like semi-metallic, metallic brake pads. I'm guessing those are better right? But do they wear faster or anything bad like that?

Thanks

 

[mitsubluetalon]

not usually with the more metallic pads, but there is more of a chance of squelling sometimes under certain conditions.

its normal if it happens but there are little things you can do to prevent it from ever happening, like getting the brake pads with the "anti-squeal" pads that go in between the brake pad and the caliper piston. and then using the special grease (and under a mircoscope look like little ball bearings) that you apply to the area on the squeal pad where the caliper piston meets the pad.

you could really take car not to let any dirt into the sleave in which the caliper bolts slide into to allow the "floating" i talked about in my last post. and make absolute SURE the those boots you see are not torn or ripped, thats very important for the life of your pads, the caliper bolts and the caliper itself.

make sure that the caliper bolts are really really smooth after you de-grease them. i took some 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper and wet sanded them to get out and nicks or corrosion or whatnot. maybe try a wire brush, just as long as they are smooth.

in my experience, the DSM braking system didn't give me much trouble on the conversion to the metallic pads i've never had them squeal and they only should squeal if the squealer tab is telling you to replace them. any body else with any thoughts??

OH ONE MORE THING.

when i first changed my brakes when i was a NEWB i did the whole car, what i didn't realize was that the front caliper pistons can be pushed back in using a C-clamp. but the back ones HAVE GOT to be turned, i think clockwise but i can't remember. i seem to remember the chiltons book i had didn't go into to much detail about the process, only that i needed some special tool to do it. so be careful and make sure you take your brake fluid cap off too or bleed the brakes. anyways.............have fun

Jason.
92 TSI AWD.

 

[punishercb]

Cool, I'll definately check the bolts when i'm changing them. I don't know if the previous owner did this, so I'll find out what shape they're in. I'm still not sure if I'm going to go with the metallic pads, but I'll keep that in mind when deciding. I do have a Haynes manual, so I'll be careful when changing the pads.

Thanks alot

 

[sc2_ct]

As mitsubluetalon was saying, the rear caliper pistons have got to be rotated to retract them back into the caliper bore. Use needle-nosed pliers and very carefully rotate them clockwise while pressing inward. Whatever you do, take care while turning them with the pliers since if the tips slip out of the slots, you could possibly tear the piston dust boot which would not be pleasant to fix.

The rear parking brake cables can be a pain to get off the first time and you need to know where the clip and retainer are, so just pay attention to the pictures in your haynes manual. Only do one side at a time in case you lose track of how things go back together so that you have the other unmolested caliper to refer to.

 

[LaserDad91]

I am glad I read this as I will be doing my rear brakes/rotors and bearings fairly soon. The brake pistion/rotation thing seems really odd. I never use a C-Clamp, just a big scewdriver between the outside pad/caliper, and collapse them that way, works fine. I wonder if I do the same, with light pressure, it they will collapse OK? I will be careful and see what happens.

I replaced the front ones with Autozone Gold OEM (semi metallic?), no squeal, and she slowed down just fine this morning from 115 mph!!

 

[sc2_ct]

You can't press in the rear pistons because they are on a spiraled rod. If you try to press them in you will end up causing damage to the caliper assembly. They make a special socket tool that has a bunch of strange extensions on them that are intended for turning in rear caliper pistons, but they are "universal" and tend to slip too much. The needle-nosed pliers trick is the easier way short of a dealer tool.

As for pressing in the front pistons with a screwdriver, it will work, but a c-clamp is less likely to score the surface of the piston IMO and it only takes 1 minute or so to compress both pistons on the dual-piston calipers.

 

[LaserDad91]

You can't press in the rear pistons because they are on a spiraled rod. If you try to press them in you will end up causing damage to the caliper assembly. They make a special socket tool that has a bunch of strange extensions on them that are intended for turning in rear caliper pistons, but they are "universal" and tend to slip too much. The needle-nosed pliers trick is the easier way short of a dealer tool.

As for pressing in the front pistons with a screwdriver, it will work, but a c-clamp is less likely to score the surface of the piston IMO and it only takes 1 minute or so to compress both pistons on the dual-piston calipers.

Thanks for the update on the rears. Still seems odd that they would rotate "out" under pressure, and not retract in under a lesser pressure. I am assuming they are using a ball screw type of thread set up here. But, your advice is well noted, thanks, I will allow extra time to this job for learning something new.

As for the screwdriver deal, not using it on the pistons! I simply insert it between the outside pad, and the outside caliper, (where the pad meets the caliper), and pry the caliper out, away from the car, depressing the piston. I will usually use two screwdrivers, as this helps keep everything even. Also, I do this first BEFORE I ever loosen any of the guide bolts, so there is no cocking of the assembly. Works good for me, never had a problem, and by leaving the piston in contact with the inside pad, I have no problems with the boot not retracting.

 

[Zex4g63]

You can't press in the rear pistons because they are on a spiraled rod. If you try to press them in you will end up causing damage to the caliper assembly.

He has a 2G, and they just push in.

 

[mitsubluetalon]

that sounds fine and all, maybe a little less time consuming than using an awkward C-clamp but the only promlem i might see with that is you might be denting or scratching your anti-squeel pad if equiped on the pads. but hey if it has been working for you then props to you...

just another addition to my last post about the anti-squeel pads, if you buy those pads and it comes with that special grease (looks like ball bearings under a microscope) make sure you only put a limited amount on the squeel pad. the amount they usually give you is enough to do about 10 brake jobs!! putting to much on will result in the grease leaking onto the brake pad itself, loosing its friction on the rotor, and possibly a failure in performance right when you need it!

i've seen it happen so be careful guys.

Jason.
92 TSI AWD

 

[doug]

He has a 2G, and they just push in.

Correct, at least for FWD cars. I'm not sure about the AWDs.

 

[sc2_ct]

He has a 2G, and they just push in.

Sorry, got a couple of the posters mixed-up

 

[Zex4g63]

Correct, at least for FWD cars. I'm not sure about the AWDs.

All 2nd gens use the same rear calipers. 2wd or awd. Same mitsu part number.

 

[LaserDad91]

that sounds fine and all, maybe a little less time consuming than using an awkward C-clamp but the only promlem i might see with that is you might be denting or scratching your anti-squeel pad if equiped on the pads. but hey if it has been working for you then props to you...

Jason.
92 TSI AWD

Yah, your right. If you want to save them, my method would not be the best. But the pads I bought came with those attahced to the pads. I just bought all the parts and replaced. I do not save anything! .

So, is it just the 1G's that have the screw in piston? Going to check my factory shop manual on this one. Thanks for the heads up, saved me some frustration and possible damage!!