wierd noise - possible oil pump?

[Nelstar800TSi]

Yet another new noise coming from my engine. Kind of a WHHHUUUURRRRR... noise that gets louder fast as RPM increases. This is a 6-bolt '90 motor in a 94 TSiAWD. Sometimes I can make it go away by blipping the throttle but usually constant from 1k to 4k rpm (since this noise started, I've been easy on her). I know it is not tranny/drivetrain related because this noise occurs in nuetral when parked. I don't travel more than 3mi since I have my oil cooler bypassed while waiting for new oil lines to be made (an external oil cooler line got cut, I just put the other end of the good line to the other fiiting on the oil filter housing to make a loop and not loose pressure.) A friend mentioned the oil pump gears are messed up or I need a pump replacement. Someone else thought it is the timing belt cover hitting the cam gears or something. I need more possible causes. I'm going nuts, I have had this car since new and this is the 3rd motor. Any more major problems and the wife says this cars gotta go....(I don't want to have to start listening to her now, but she may be right)

 

[02BLUR]

Can you record the sound and post it?

 

[Nelstar800TSi]

I don't have anything to record and save to my computer - not right now anyhow. I have to describe the sound, it sounds "gearish", not a scraping noise like say, brakes. I do have oil pressure but somethings just not right. It just started making this noise all of a sudden. It's driving me crazy.

 

[Defiant]

Balance shaft bearing.

 

[Nelstar800TSi]

I figured out that it is not the cover. I moved all of them around while the motor was running and none appear to be interfering. I do still have the balance shafts installed. If it is a balance shaft bearing, will removing them (the shafts and belt) cure this problem? If only I can find a shop that is willing to do this with the motor still in....

 

[Nelstar800TSi]

How should I check if it is a bad balance shaft bearing? WIll I have metal shavings in the oil? Anyhitng else I should look for? Would this be the front or rear one? I'm chock full of quesitons. Going to the dealership on Wednesday. Anyhting I should check before going to minimize the time i spend grabbing my ankles?

 

[cdp]

mine is making the same noise from idle to 3000rpm...let me know what you find out

 

[Nelstar800TSi]

After popping the hood, I think the sound is coming more from the valve cover. Similar sound to the other guy on another post in which he posted the video with sound. Mine however, sounds normal or less bad at idle and gets worse as rpms go up. I just dropped my car off at the dealership. Too cold for me to open her up and take a look. The service manager mentioned my car hasn't been there since summer 1996. I feel helpless as I wait for the dealer to call me with the bad news tomorrow.

 

[cdp]

post what the dealer tells you and price..thanks

 

[bleacf1b]

Hey Guys,
I have a 90 laser RS turbo and the same thing happened to me, but only when it's cold out right? That sound I found out is actually the oil pump. In the 1G cars the oil pump is driven by straight cut gears (instead of worm drive shafts like a 2G) that will make a wine sound untill they warm up. It's very common with the 1G because of plain old steel against steel and isn't a problem. Just let your car warm up before u drive it

 

[trbotaln]

good chance you spun a balance shaft bearing. If so, good time to get rid of them!

 

[cdp]

did the dealersip let you know what the problem was yet??? :thumbdown

 

[Nelstar800TSi]

I should find out today what is going on. So far, I'm $400 into it - that's just getting the front cover off and taking a look. Since it's at the dealership and removing balance shafts is not on the service menu over there, do you think i can still have them do that since the cover is off anyways? I was just going to leave the front one in without a belt and do the stubby in the rear. any input?

 

[cdp]

I don't know if the dealership will do a balance shaft removal or not.They may not even know what you are talking about :laugh: ..$400 for pulling the cover off and taking a look is crazy!!! I am in the wrong business I guess.

 

[Nelstar800TSi]

Car is still at the dealership and no news so far. They just got to the front case today after it has been sitting there for 3 days!!! My rental car bill is going to be thru the roof. They have determined that problem is in the timing belt area and timing is not off. I'm guessing balance shaft bearing now.... I just want those bad boys removed. I hope someone in the dealership know's what I'm talking about when I say to get rid of them. But, they still didn't find the problem, everything is still speculation. Come monday, I'll know if it will be an easy fix, or time to buy a new car (not another DSM).

 

[cdp]

I made a video clip of my engine running and the sound it is making.Anyone know a site I can upload to?I don't think I can post it here

 

[Nelstar800TSi]

Dealer finally found the problem. The front balance shaft gear was loose. Luckily, belt was still in place and didn't have the chance to rip up my timing belt. Needless to say, both the balance shafts have to go. I don't need the headaches. Hopefully, one of the mechanics over there will know what I'm talking about. I'll keep everyone posted...

 

[Strm Trpr]

Damn man, I am in the wrong business....

Sucks that's all it was for $400....
What's the status of your T-Belt and Water pump?
While they're in there, it might not be a bad idea to get it done.

Have them replace all of the oil seals too........
Along with new valve cover seals..... all 6 of them....

 

[cdp]

http://www.supermotors.org/registry/vehicles/detail.php?id=6350&s=20637#content
here is the link to my video..let me know if it sounds like yours

 

[Nelstar800TSi]

I talked to them today and they're quoting me $1300 in parts and $1200 labor! they want to replace both balance shafts and everything associated with the whole assembly. I asked the tech about balance shaft removal and he said he was familiar with the procedure but he can't do it without permission of the Service manager since it is not a regular mitsu practice. He said the front shaft appears to be ceased in there and the tech said it will be a pain to remove. I was going to suggest leaving the front one in there to cover allthe oil holes up and replace the rear with the mirage stubby. The service manager is going to talk about it with the tech and try to get a lowest cost solution. I'm waiting for an answer right now........... anything over $1200 and this car is going to get the boot.....

 

[Nelstar800TSi]

I just reviewed that video.... sounds close, but not quite. Mine was much worse and happened all of a sudden.... If you can, try to remove the balance shafts and see if it's still like that... it would be cheaper to do that than to have the mitsu techs even begin to look at it.... I know all about it....

 

[Nelstar800TSi]

To sum everything up, problem was the front balance shaft. It apparently ceased in place and was told the rear balance shaft bearing was also ready to go. I gave them the part numbers to do replace the rear balance shaft with the Mirage stubby (MD 098626) and the rear bearing (MD 103722). I wanted to just leave the front balance shaft in place and just not run a belt and it will block all the oil. (if anyone thinks this is wrong or if I missed something, please let me know). After one day of waiting, this afternoon they told me they wouldn't do it. The assistant service manager stated they don't do "modifications." Now my car is in peices and I can't drive it to a place that will do this procedure = Have to pay for flatbed towing. They can't even get me a total on my bill so far... I'll know tomorrow how much it cost for them to butcher my car up and tell me they can't do anything about it unless I dump some serious $$$ to put new shafts in ($2400 parts and labor). They never did tell me what the $1200 in parts consisted of.....they just mention.."well you know bolt her and a bolt there, the shafts....." It's not over yet so I will not name this dealership. They may turn around, I'm going to talk to the manager to see if he'll change his mind. I trusted this place for so long for parts and service (when I was lazy or didn't have the time) and now I feel like they're sticking it to me....

 

[Nelstar800TSi]

I'm probably going to have my car towed to an independent mechanic friend. I'll be able to look in and help do the work on the car. I have never done the balance shaft removal myself and plan on leaving the front balance shaft, sprocket, and the other front balance shaft stuff in place. Just going to get the stub shaft and bearing for the rear. I've read many articles on the procedure and some input from others on this site. Am I doing this correctly? Just going to put a new rear bearing (is this the one I install 180degrees or does this go in the way it's supposed to) and install the stub. I'm even going to try to replace the oil pump and replace the gears from the later models (hellical cut ones) which I have laying around. Any input?

 

[Gigaah]

If its timing belt area it could also be a bad tensioner unit.

 

[Strm Trpr]

Listen man..... the rear balance shaft bearing doesn't need to be messed with.
It gets lubricated by the hollow rear balance shaft.
The 2 front balance shaft bearings have to be rotated and reinstalled 180* to plug up the oil holes.....
Also, you'll need to put a short screw in the hole in the front case where the balance shaft tensioner pulley went, or you'll have one hell of an oil leak.....
You can leave the front balance shaft in place, and just install the Stubby rear from the mirage.
How many miles do you have on your engine....
I't might be a good idea to buy a new front case with a new oil pump....
PM me if you want more info.....
Here's a link to go to and print out for your mechanic....
<a href = http://www.vfaq.com/mods/balance-shafts.html> Balance Shaft Elimination VFAQ</a>
Replace all timing belt components and water pump too, if you haven't had this done in the last 60k.....