Walbro 255

[69_luv]

Should you hear the Walbro 255 before you start the motor? Ie when you put the key in the ignition and before you bump the starter should you hear the fuel pump?

Should you only hear the fuel pump during operation and during cranking of the starter?

 

[leet]

IT goes on before you crank over.

 

[69_luv]

And if it doesn't? What would cause it not to turn on prior to cranking? I am having a hard time starting the car, I have to give it gas, and I noticed that the Walbro isn't making any noise tell the car cranks, or is running.

 

[69_luv]

Anyone know where I would look, or what would cause a fuel pump not to work before the car is turned over or started?

The fuel pump works great once the car is started, but is really hard to start. Like the fuel is not getting there tell after the car is started.

Plz help, I am trying to install my command start/alarm, but with the car being such a pain to start I don't want to install my command start...

 

[SpeedFreak03]

Did you do the rewire when you installed it? If not, then you should do it. Also, check and see if any power is getting to the pump when the key is in the on position (use a multimeter), it should get around 14V for good operation.

 

[69_luv]

no I didn't do the rewire, it wasn't required? The plug plugged right up....
No I am not getting and volts when key is applied before starter engages

 

[exzercist]

the rewire is required on all 2g if you want optimum pressure. but put a side that i bet you didnt put the breather hose back or the clamp isnt tight. if you forgot to do this the pump will breathe air until the gas fills up the hose then it will start. if your car doest start for like 5 secs of crankin and you have to push the gas thats prolly the prob. but seriously think of rewire with at least 10 gauge wire. your fuel pressure will be more constistent en and higher def at high rpms.

 

[SpeedFreak03]

I think instead of diagnosing this bullshit, you should just do the rewire, shown here: http://www.raktron.com/fuel/rewire1.html and it's the same for non-spyder cars, don't worry . It should fix your problem, and your pump will run much better. The only thing is, what if the signal wire doesn't get power? Quick question for you electrical people: Since the fuel pump runs all the time when the ignition is on "ON" (right?), couldn't you just run a wire from a switched source (only gets power in "ON" position) and use that for the relay instead of the stock turn-on wire (since his is dead)? I don't see why not, please explain why people don't do this!

 

[exzercist]

you can wire this way but most people just use the existing turn on wire. but i dont think my pump comes on when i turn the key to "on". im not sure though never checked but mine alwsy starts right up. but i also did the rewiring.

 

[adamism]

Sorry to hijack but is a rewire supposed to be done w/ a 190lph on a 2g?

 

[2nd gen gst]

when you installed your fuel pump, did you make sure the o-ring wasn't kinked or scratched. This could be your problem, allowing the fuel to leak back into the tank allowing a air gap to form resulting in your hard starts.

 

[SpeedFreak03]

Sorry to hijack but is a rewire supposed to be done w/ a 190lph on a 2g?

Yea your supposed to do it with any fuel pump, either gen (1 or 2), even with the stocker. It just makes them flow better because of the higher voltage.

 

[SpeedFreak03]

when you installed your fuel pump, did you make sure the o-ring wasn't kinked or scratched. This could be your problem, allowing the fuel to leak back into the tank allowing a air gap to form resulting in your hard starts.

If his fuel pump isn't running until the engine cranks, then it doesn't have hardly enough pressure to start, thats whats causing his start problem. I think you should try wiring it like i described before, I did some reading and I think that method would work fine, since the pump is supposed to run when the key is in the on position.

 

[spooled_u]

I'm having the same problem. It's the o-ring. IT's not snug or its damaged. My car is really hard to start after sitting for more than a few hours. I just gotta find them to go back in there and fix it.

 

[SpeedFreak03]

I'm having the same problem. It's the o-ring. IT's not snug or its damaged. My car is really hard to start after sitting for more than a few hours. I just gotta find them to go back in there and fix it.

But does your fuel pump run before you crank the engine? His doesn't, that's why his hesitates to start.

 

[69_luv]

Oring is intact, fuel lines are tight, and everything seems ok there....
I will try the rewire, though I don't see how that would fix the prob...but worth a shot.

I hear the fuel pump as soon as I start cranking the motor over. I stop then crank it some more, and repeat this process tell the car finally starts....

The fuel pump does not make any noise prior to cranking the engine over, or when I stop cranking, but is working while cranking, and once the car is running....

 

[luv2rallye]

no I didn't do the rewire, it wasn't required? The plug plugged right up....
No I am not getting and volts when key is applied before starter engages

I'm your electrical guy (and have schematics): Regardless of a o-ring or any other possible leaks, the fuel pump should have 12 volts when the key is in the ON position as well as the START position. Yours doesn't in the ON (you claim) which you need to fix. The ignition switch voltage (in either key position) is applied to the fuel pump relay and the other side of the relay coil goes to the ECU (not ground). So either your ignition switch is bad, or you didn't connect up the relay (if you added your own) to the correct wires, or your new pump draws so much current that all the voltage got dropped in the original wires (in which case you must rewire it with heavier guage wire), or you have a bad ECU. You can connect the negative side of the relay coil to ground and it will work but then you prevent any turn off by the ECU when it thinks your engine is about to be permanently damaged (of course you won't ever have to worry about fuel cutoff again but there are many conditions it detects where it turns off the pump so your motor won't be distroyed).

 

[SpeedFreak03]

Great explaination ! One thing tho - are you sure that when the ECU hits fuel cut, it shuts the PUMP off, or just the injectors? I always thought it was the injectors, because if the pump cut off each time you hit fuel cut, the engine would probably die, or just sputter and come back to life. But from what you said about the electrical part, here's what I would do: Run a switched wire (only has power in ON position) from the ignition harness back to the the pump (put a inline fuse on this wire pretty close to the harness, just put it in the steering column itself). Then run a 10 gauge wire from the battery to the pump (put an inline fuse on that wire, pretty close to the battery). Then hookup the rewire like it says to in the VFAQ, BUT where it says "Blue wire from harness to 86 (coil positive)", use the new ignition harness wire. Hook everything else up the same way though. Good luck, and luv2rallye, this would work fine, right (except maybe the fuel cut thing)?

 

[luv2rallye]

Yes you're absolutely right about the fuel cutoff being the injectors. I just noticed the return side of the stock fuel pump relay goes to the ECU, so it has control of it (and made an invalid assumption without thinking it through). The ECU obviously controls the injectors so that would make more sense to cause immediate shutdown in the fuel cutoff situation. Thanks for pointing this out.

 

[69_luv]

Where is the fuel pump relay located?

 

[luv2rallye]

Stock turbo fuel pump relay should be same place as on my 99 GST - behind center console passenger side. Remove pasenger left kick panel. There are 2 relays side by side. Left one is FP other is MFI.

 

[69_luv]

do you have a picture by any chance? I am doing the rewire today, just got all my new parts in yesterday and today they go in ( my car was broke into and they took a whole bunch of stuff from under my hood... :thumbdown )

So I will give you guys a heads up on if it fixes the prob. If not I am going to have to either tap in a power wire that engages when the key is inserted into the car, or change out that fuel pump relay....

If I hardwire it will it effect my command start for my alarm? Sense there is no key being inserted?

Thanks guys

 

[luv2rallye]

So I will give you guys a heads up on if it fixes the prob. If not I am going to have to either tap in a power wire that engages when the key is inserted into the car, or change out that fuel pump relay....

If I hardwire it will it effect my command start for my alarm? Sense there is no key being inserted?

OK - I'm an electrical engineer so bear with me:
First I'm not sure what you mean by "command start for your alarm". If you mean does activation of the theft alarm prevent the fuel pump from working, only the engineers who designed the ECU would know, since the return wire of the factory FP relay goes to the ECU and only they would know what they designed it to do in this case. If they prevent it and you just went to ground for example, then no, your alarm would not stop the FP. If they don't prevent it, then it wouldn't change anything if you went to ground. If you went to the same place they did on the ECU, then it should work the same.

If by "command start for your alarm" you mean a remote starter, then as long as you connect the relay positive coil wire to a wire that has power in both the on and start positions you should be ok since the remote starter would have to do the same.

Important stuff:
I'm not familiar with the Walbro 255 but I assume it draws more current than the stock FP which is why people are suggesting using 10 guage wire to not drop voltage in the wire (on the way to the FP so less appears at the FP). The factory typically only uses wire just large enough for the current draw (to reduce cost). The factory FP wire is 1.25 sq. mm which is 0.00194 sq. in. The 10 ga. wire, on the other hand, is 0.1 in. diameter which makes it 0.00785 sq. in. This is 4 times bigger so can carry 4 times more current with the same voltage drop (you want the voltage drop in the wire as small as possible for max efficency and power transfer to the FP). So if the measured voltage across your Walbro with the key in ON but engine not running is less than 12 volts (and the battery is at least 12 volts), you should increase the size of your wire (lower the guage number) perhaps to guage 10 as others have found to work well.

If all this is too confusing, just do the FP rewire like SpeedFreak03 suggests.

Addendum to what SpeedFreak03 recommends:
The FP relay, however, does not have to be by the FP since this would just mean a longer control (positive relay coil) wire (assuming you are adding one because your existing wire doesn't work). I would put it close to your ignition switched wire just to save wire (have only 1 new wire go all the way to the tank instead of 2) and for convience. That is why the factory FP relay is there instead of back at the tank.

Hope this clears up and helps you - not confuse you more.

 

[SpeedFreak03]

Addendum to what SpeedFreak03 recommends:
The FP relay, however, does not have to be by the FP since this would just mean a longer control (positive relay coil) wire (assuming you are adding one because your existing wire doesn't work). I would put it close to your ignition switched wire just to save wire (have only 1 new wire go all the way to the tank instead of 2) and for convience. That is why the factory FP relay is there instead of back at the tank.

Yea that's a great idea, why didn't I think of that before ! Anyway maybe try swapping that factory relay first, and if it works, then do the rewire. If it still doesn't work, then do it the way I mentioned. Or you could save some time and money and just do it my way .

I'm not sure what the command start is, but if it's a remote starter, then it will still work normally, because remote starters do the same thing as turning the key to ON (put + on the ON/ignition wires). One thing I thought of though - does the ON wire have power when the key is in the START position? If not, this could be a problem...

Here are all the wires in at the ignition harness (and some other stuff):

1995 Eclipse

12v: white positive at ignition harness
ignition: black/white positive at ignition harness
accessory: blue/black positive at ignition harness
starter: black/red positive at ignition harness
tach: blue/black AC at coil pack (2cyl signal)
lock: brown/white negative at relays in center console
unlock: brown negative at relays in center console
doorpin: red/green negative at courtesy light under dash
trunkpin: red/green negative in driver's kick panel
factory arm: green/yellow negative in driver's kick panel
factory disarm: green/white negative in driver's kick panel
brakeswitch: green positive at switch above brake pedal
parking lights: green/white positive in driver's kick panel
hand brake: yellow/black negative at handbrake or behind instument cluster
horn: green/red negative at steering column
driver window up: green/red reverse polaritiy at main window switch
driver window down: green/blue reverse polarity at main window switch
passenger window up: brown/yellow reverse polarity at main window switch
passenger window down: green/yellow reverse polarity at main window switch
headlights: red negative at light switch harness
reverse lights: red/blue positive in driver's kick panel
dimmer: green/white positive at dimmer switch harness
key sense: green positive at ignition harness

Would there be a way to tap both the starter (black/red at ignition harness) and ignition (black/white at ignition harness)? luv2rallye, I think I'm gonna leave this thought with you, cause I gotta go to work! Let us know how it works out if you try it!

 

[69_luv]

Just to give everyone a fallow up on the outcome. I did the rewire, and had to do a slight modification. I was not getting power when the ignition was applied, or when cranking? Only when the car was running. SO I routed a new wire from the fuse box that had power as soon as the key was turned once, while cranking, and while running. So as soon as you stick the key in the ignition and go to start, it STARTS!!! Its a first sense I have owned the car....

So morale of the story, when you get a high flow fuel pump, it requires a lot more juice!!

I took it out for a run, and just doing the rewire has fixed a lot of problems. My crappy idle, stutter in mid to upper RPM range, and all starting issues.

So now its on to the next problems that need attention....

Thanks for all the help guys, and special thanks to Speedfreak03 for that great link:
http://www.raktron.com/fuel/rewire1.html