can't get into any gear

[v8s_are_slow]

i just bought an act2600 about 4 months ago. pulled the tranny 2 weeks ago cause i thought the throwout bearing was bad. replaced it but inspected my clutch while i was at it. the disc was shot. friction surface was fine but the springs were about ready to pop out (and it was making lots of noise).

so today i pulled the tranny again to install a new eclutchmasters 6 puck disc and fidanza flywheel. kept my act 2600 pressure plate though. during the install i checked the step on both flywheels. the old one was .600 and the fidanza was .610 (brand new or course). was checking them just for the heck of it cause before i changed it, the master cylinder was all the way out to the last thread. wanted to see if the new flywheel step would make a difference.

well, before i changed it, it was shifting into gears. now it won't go into any. not even close. can't even get the pdeal all the way to the floor and the master cylinder is being a pain to turn. i even made myself a slave cylinder rod that was maybe 1/4" to 1/2" longer. still nothing. i'm thinking of maybe changing the slave cylinder and master cylinder just to be sure. but before i waste my money, is there anything else that it could be?!?!? i mean it was shifting just fine before i changed it. hmmm.....still had the same pressure plate. it's just a new flywheel and clutch disc. could a .010 difference in height make that much of a difference? figured if anything, the higher step on the fidanza would make it easier. anyway, thanks for anyone's opinions. REALLY not wanting to pull my tranny again.

scott

 

[boostnbuds]

Hey man,I saw that noone answered your post so i figured id ask around and try to help you out. I asked a few friends and they said to make sure u didnt install the clutch disk in backwards, they said also recheck the throw out bearing. Your gonna have to take it apart again anyways. well good luck i tried

 

[v8s_are_slow]

i know i installed everything right and i'm positive the throwout bearing is okay. just bought and installed both, master cylinder and slave cylinder and still nothing. it had very little pressure and still not going into gear. i don't have a clue what could be the problem because it was shifting before i changed everything. help!!!!

 

[talon1979]

Is your car a 1990? If so they tend to have a very hard time running the 2600lb clutches. Did you double check the step on the flywheel?

 

[v8s_are_slow]

nope, it's a 94 with a 6 bolt and no balance shafts. i've had the 2600 in there for 4 months now and didn't have any problems (except that i had to have the pushrod on the master cylinder out to it's very last thread and the clutch disc just went to crap). all i changed was the flywheel and the clutch disc. still using the 2600 pressure plate. all of a sudden i'm low on clutch pressure and it won't go into gear. hmmmm....

 

[Mike1992]

Check out RRE at the bottom of the page RRE Tech My guess would be a worn clutch fork or worn peddle assembly

 

[talon1979]

When the clutch pedal is released can you reach behind it and pull it out a little further? If so, fixing that may fix your problem.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

i'll check tomorrow. i made a longer slave cylinder rod but it's not in right now after putting in the new slave and master cylinder today. gonna maybe try and put that back in tomorrow and see what happens. wish me luck.

 

[crankbender]

lets all look at a few things here.

#1 call clutchmasters and find out if you can use that disk with that pressure plate. The disk may need a different step that is made up for in their pressure plates....but you arn't using one.

#2 how did you fry the street disk on a 2600...... you may have a valve problem on the clutch assembly (if it is set up like a 2g)?

#3 my 90 has never had a problem with the 2600.....

#4 what do you mean you can't push the petal all the way to the floor?

#5 did you try just bleeding the clutch yet?

#6 does the fidanza use a pilot bearing....did you check it?

Do those things and you should have some more info. Expecially call clutchmasters.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

well, i put the longer slave cylinder rod back in and it didn't phase it at ALL!!!! there's about 1 1/2 to 2 inches of free play in the pedal before i feel anything at all. and even then, the pressure isn't all that much. there's no slop in the pedal assembly.

as for the act2600 disc, the friction surface was just fine. but the rivets that hold the hub together seemed to falling apart and springs were moving around a lot.

yep, i bled the system (with new master and slave cylinder).

the flywheel is fine as well. brand new.

i can push the pedal to the floor now, but didn't wanna go to the floor until after i installed the new master and slave cylinder. dunno why. but now it's just as though i don't have enough pressure and too much freeplay in the pedal.

guess i'll have to holler at clutchmasters though and see what they say. really hope i don't have to buy another pressure plate (incase i throw it in and then still have the problem and just end up wasting lotsa money). i'm just getting really pissed off at my car right now. dang it!!!

 

[Mike1992]

Originally posted by Mike1992
Check out RRE at the bottom of the page RRE Tech My guess would be a worn clutch fork or worn peddle assembly

 

[talon1979]

Originally posted by crankbender
lets all look at a few things here.

#3 my 90 has never had a problem with the 2600.....

What did you step your flywheel at? I tried installing a new 2600 three times in one week. I even got new mitsu master and slave cylinders, adjusted everything, bled the clutch 100x's, triple checked the step on the flywheel and everything. I can't even begin to say how frusterated I was. I even tried to elongate the slave cylinder rod and master cylinder as well as get a new clutch fork and pivot ball. I decided to throw a 2100 back in and suddenly it worked like magic again. My friend did some research and we found out people w/ 90's were having this type of problem. The clutch was always engaged even w/ the pedal to the floor. If I tried to start the car when it was in first it would jump forward when the engine cranked. The only way I figured I could get the clutch to disengage enough would be to have a large step in the flywheel.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

i've been thinkin about it and nothing should've really changed when i changed the disc. but what could've made the change is the flywheel. of course the step height was correct at .610, but does anyone know if the total depth (top of the step, to the back of the flywheel) is thinner than a stock flywheel? if the flywheel is thinner overall then maybe it's pulling the pressure plate closer to the motor and the throwout bearing just isn't reaching because of this.

if this is the case, maybe i need to shim the pivot ball. i'm gonna pull the tranny again this upcoming weekend but i'll be ticked if i have to pull it for no reason and still have the same problem. anyone know how much i should maybe shim it? what size washers or something? is there any precautions i need to take if i shim it? like maybe the fork hitting the bell housing? wonder if that would be a problem, if i should grind the bell housing some where the fork comes thru, just to make room. and somehow make a boot that fits over the wider hole. what do ya'll think? anyway, thanks for the input. still frustrated though.

 

[crankbender]

Originally posted by talon1979
What did you step your flywheel at? I tried installing a new 2600 three times in one week. I even got new mitsu master and slave cylinders, adjusted everything, bled the clutch 100x's, triple checked the step on the flywheel and everything. I can't even begin to say how frusterated I was. I even tried to elongate the slave cylinder rod and master cylinder as well as get a new clutch fork and pivot ball. I decided to throw a 2100 back in and suddenly it worked like magic again. My friend did some research and we found out people w/ 90's were having this type of problem. The clutch was always engaged even w/ the pedal to the floor. If I tried to start the car when it was in first it would jump forward when the engine cranked. The only way I figured I could get the clutch to disengage enough would be to have a large step in the flywheel.

I will write a better article on this (it is going on the list) but in general this is what is happening.

When you increase the PP pressure you increase the pressure the fluid must reach. This puts more strain on lines and seals as well as making it more important to bleed.

Basically if you rlines are not stretching, your seals are not leaking, and you have 100% bleed you will be able to move almost any pp with a strong left leg.

Elongating the slave rod does nothing for the system. You may have to shim the ball and adjust the master rod under the dash.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

k i did the washer thing on the pivot ball today. put 3 washers in. didn't help but it feels closer when i move the fork by hand. i've replaced the master cylinder, slave cylinder, clutch line, act2600 pressure plate, eclutchmasters 6 puck disc, fidanza flywheel, put in a longer slave cylinder rod, and i've bled the system twice just to be sure. the rod on the master cylinder is at the end of the threads and hanging on for dear life. i ALSO measured both flywheels from front to back (only the section where it mounts up though) and it was about the same. the pedal assembly is tight as well. anyone know of anything else that could be wrong? and the fork looked fine btw. i'm fresh out of ideas.

on a second note, when i was putting my tranny back in and tightened one of the bolts, the whole top of the bell housing just cracked and broke off. DAMN IT!!! almost made me think it was a piece of plastic or something. now i only have one bolt holding the tranny to the motor and that ain't gonna work. anyone know of where i can get a bell housing for an awd tranny? just one more problem to add to the list. definately can't drive right now.

 

[g9s0x]

do you still need a bellhousing for an awd tranny? if so i have one that came off a 90 tranny. i hate to add to your misery but in order to swap bellhousing, you are going to have to completely disassemble and reassemble the transmission!!

 

[v8s_are_slow]

thanks but i "should" be good as far as that goes. one of the instructors at my school is gonna hook me up and weld it for me. glad i'm in a welding and machining school right now after i get it back on, i just have to try and figure out the disengagement problem.

just wondering but have many of ya'll tried making a longer master cylinder rod, or welding a nut to the bracket or something? that's the only other thing i can think of to do. but what's the chance of blowing out the seal if i do that?!?!? hmmmm.....

 

[Mike1992]

I had somewhat the same problem you have. First I rebuilt the pedal assembly, then I replaced both master and slave cylinders. Still not getting into any gear it would just grind even with the master cylinder rod adjusted all the way out. So then i pulled the trans and added a meaty washer under the pivot ball of the clutch fork. This worked, I was able to get into all gears. Although my master cylinder was on the very end. I drove it like this for about 100 miles until I cam eup with some money to buy a extended slave cylinder rod from TabooSpeedShop I also purchased a new clutch fork and pivot ball from DSMotorSport After installing the 2 components Im good to go, I now have the clutch master adjusted way way down. Everything is good for me. And Im positive it will work for you.

Edit: As suggested by fellow members of the board I used a single oil line crush washer under the new pivotball of the clutch fork. Also a good idea.

 

[g9s0x]

when i installed my ACT2600 i went ahead and shimmed the pivot ball even with a brand new properly stepped ACT flywheel. I just used like a small washer i had in my spare miscellaneous nuts/bolts box that is like around 1/16" thick.

the use of the extended slave rod is to keep some inital pressure in the hydraulic system so that when using an ACT 2600 you will make enough hydraulic pressure to fully disengage the clutch. this is a debatable mod as some have done fine without it, and some swear by it. I went ahead and did it and it works out fine.

i would not extend the master cylinder rod by welding on an extra nut. use the extended slave rod and make sure the step height is at .610" on the flywheel for the ACT 2600 and you should not have to keep the clutch engagement point so low to the floor.

I think you need to shim the pivot ball and that will solve your problem. Over time the pivot ball wears down as does the groove in the clutch release fork due to friction, which causes the release fork to move away from the pressure plate ever so slightly. its a tight tolerance when talking about how much the TOB has to move to disengage the clutch so even with a properly stepped flywheel, I saw the need to shim my old pivot ball and clutch release fork. worked like a charm for me.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

i've already done all that. new master, slave, longer slave cylinder rod, "3" washers under the pivot ball, braided clutch line, brand new fidanza flywheel with a .610 step height, etc. there's not much else that i know of that i can do. that's why i was thinkin about the nut on the bracket for the clutch pedal. but just wanna make sure i'm not gonna blow out the seals if i do this.

 

[crankbender]

Guys making the rod longer does nothing for you...this is a hydraulic system. When you let off the clutch the fork pulls back to the stop (unless you somehow are using a rod so long your fork is constantly rubbing on the pp(bad)). Look at it this way you are going to move a constant ammount of fluid and this ammount has nothing to do with the length of that rod!!! what you need to check is this.

#1 is the system bled properly...when you think it is bled it isn't. You may have to bleed the shat outta it for like 30 minutes. bubbles like to get stuck in there somewhere.

#2 are the seals all sealing. If you have a little leak anywhere you will never get it to engage.

#3 is the plunger all the way out on the petal (don't forget about the lock washer).

#4 is the system bled properly???? yes I am asking again I can't stress how important this is.

How hard is it to get a gear when you first stop the car (when the syncros arn't lined up) and it isn't running.
#5 are your lines too old and swelling when you push on the petal?

That is really all there is. The whole thing about the rod is a little odd as the throw should be no different and this is just some way to try and make up for the bad clutch lines. don't look for a work around fix the problem.

 

[Mike1992]

Check to see if your clutch disk is in backwards

 

[v8s_are_slow]

nope, disc isn't in backwards, and yeah the clutch system is bled. bled the hell out of it.

 

[g9s0x]

a longer slave rod will not change the amount of total movement that the fork sees or move a greater volume of fluid. what it does is create some initial pressure in the hydraulic system so that you do not have to have the master cylinder adjustment rod "hanging" on by the last of its threads. basically it gives some preload to the system so that the master cylinder doesn't have to. but this is not the problem here.

how have you adjusted the master cylinder and did that do anything?

if you look under the dash at the master cylinder rod and push the clutch in with your hand...does the rod move into the master cylinder? if not, it could be a worn out pedal assembly.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

i've done all of that. the master cylinder is hanging on by the last thread already so i can't adjust it anymore. there's no play in the pedal assembly.

just wondering if welding a nut to the bracket under the pedal so i have more adjustment would help or if it would blow out the seals. i dunno how much room that thing has inside the master cylinder to travel. i've done everything else and i've listed it all in this thread. any ideas as to the nut welding thing (and if it would blow out the seals or not) would be appreciated. thanks!

scott