Cold Start Problem? EVIL CAR!

[bunkmonkey]

Describing problems can not even come close to watching in person what this car actually does.

First of all YES my ECU capacitors are probably leaking. However, I am not going to put this down as my problem because when I turn my key to acessories, my CEL is on.

I have not entirely ruled out a fuel related problem...since the fuel seems to be the problem until the car actually runs. (Read ahead, this will all make sense)

Ok...here we go!

It takes 20 mins. at least to get my car started where it will actually run.
Over that 20 mins. from trying to suceeding, this is what happens.
Turns over...as a normal car should. It just doens't start. You keep trying and for a few mins. it does the same thing. Eventually it will start catching like it is trying to start...then it starts and dies. You can not pump the gas to keep it running.....then a few tries of this...the gas pedal starts to work...but doesn't always have a response. Evetually after 20 mins. the car runs and the gas pedal actually does something. THIS ONLY HAPPENS WHEN THE CAR IS COLD!

I am not sure where, but I can hear and smell an exhaust leak close to my engine. I am scared to drive the car to a mechanic because I don't want to not be able to start the car and have to pay a storage fee because I can not afford to get it fixed right now. Actually, I can not afford to get it diagnosed now. Fixing will depend on what is actually wrong.

I have ruled out fuel filter and injectors because it will only do it when trying to start it. While the car has hesitation and poor performance, that is nothing new. That problem could be related...or seperate.

THIS CAR IS FOR SALE!
make me an offer!

thanks,
Carol
Aqua Metallica 92 TSi AWD 153k miles LOTS OF NEW PARTS!

 

[pinknuggit]

Where in misourri are you located? how much will you get rid of the car for?

 

[bunkmonkey]

I am located at the Lake of the Ozarks, but I would meet you in the Joplin area if you are truly interested.
I will sell the car for $1200, because that is what I owe my husband's parents on our Stealth.
Thanks,
Carol

 

[92redman]

You can't rule out the fuel filter just because it runs fine once it's started. The car takes quite a bit more fuel to get it started when everything is cold. It could be electrical problems. I would check what the battery voltage is, and also the voltage drop from the terminals to the posts. Check voltage to the fuel pump if you can, also check fuel pressure when it is cold, you're check valve in the pump could be leaking. The ECU is the source of a lot of 1st gen problems... Also you could have a bad sensor or two in the MAF.
We could help you diagnose, but it looks like you really don't want it fixed.

So whatever happens, good luck.

-Brandon

 

[bunkmonkey]

UPDATE:
I do not think it is fuel related. Since I posted this I have taken the fuel line off of the top of the filter and turned the car over. PLENTY of fuel. I also tested all of the injectors w/ a test light while the car was running. There is a sensor called the IAT I am going to see if that is the problem tomorrow. (it sets the defualt temp of the car to 77 degrees, i am wondering if after cranking the engine for so long it doesn't get up to temp and cause the right amount of everything to mix) I am also going to check my Fuel Pressure Regulator. I guess the exhaust leak is coming from my manifold....which I just had the gasket replaced...the mechanic might have to redo his job.

As for whether I want to fix it:
I have a Twin Turbo Stealth so the Talon is just a dull headache. It seems to ALWAYS have a problem. As much as I love the car I can't afford it. It has had a lot of problems but has never left me stranded anywhere. It is a strong love, hate relationship. I am trying to fix it to sell it, but once I get it fixed I won't want to sell it. It is an awful cycle.

 

[92redman]

If the IAT is showing 77deg, and the actually outside temp is much lower, see if somebody has a known good MAF you can swap in to try. The IAT should roughly be the same as the ambient temp on start up. Also you're baro could be screwed as well(what is that reading by the way? something like 37inHg is limp-in value). Try wiggling wires and connectors to see if you can get any change. Unplug the MAF connector and inspect the terminals.

There could be dozens of different things that could cause your problem. Just start with the easiest things... Have you done a tune-up lately? Having too large of a gap on your spark plugs would make it hard to start when cold, as well as fouled plugs.

Are there any other symptoms besides cold starting problems? Things such as a misfire when it is warmed up, fast idle, idle surge, MIL lit up, sluggishness, etc. could help in the diagnosis.

Sorry for the long post, but I probably could have kept going on. Just give as much info as you can.

What scan tool/logger are you using by the way?

 

[bunkmonkey]

I am not using a data logger or anything. I got the info on the IAT out of the Chilton guide. It says the default is 77 degrees...I wish I had it to explain further.

The car does have poor performance sometimes. It "cuts out" on occasion. However, I drive it 75 miles home and back every weekend and it runs fine w/ occasional "cut out" or hesitation. I don't think it has the power it should. I don't know how to describe anything though.

 

[bunkmonkey]

here it is

 

[92redman]

Oh, I thought you were saying that you were getting 77deg. Well you can't really check it then unless you know what voltage corresponds to what temperature at the sensor.

 

[bunkmonkey]

Hey the problem has been narrowed down to the TPS. I guess it was just a fluke that it only did it when it was cold.
Just thought it might help others.
The cut out, hesitation, and poor performance has nothing to do with this I guess.
-Carol

 

[92redman]

How did you narrow it down to the TPS already? How did you come to that conclusion exactly?

 

[bunkmonkey]

I took it to my usual mechanic who hates working on my car. He said that he looked it over and that if you hold the throttle 1/4 the way down when you turn it over, it will start like normal. Then if you let the car warm up it will have the entire range of the throttle. It makes sense to me because of the way the gas pedal was acting. It seemed like a problem w/ the gas pedal rather than fuel or an electric problem. I didn't know what TPS did though. I thought it had something to do w/ cars that had a throttle body and I knew that my car did not.
I can get a used TPS off of ebay for like $25.

I also found out something else about my car.
It is pumping oil into the #3 cylinder. What would cause that? Should I start a new thread?
-Carol

 

[92redman]

That doesn't sound like a TPS to me, sounds like IAC. The only way to be sure is get it hooked up to a scan tool and look at the tps voltage and slowly move through it's range to see if their are holes or abnormal voltage readings.

 

[bunkmonkey]

I will look into how he ended up with the TPS being the problem. I think I am going to just sell the car though. If I have bad rings or pistons, that is something that is going to cost me a lot to fix. I can't afford to spend anymore money on this car. I love it and I am not going to start talking trash like most girls would. I know what comes with owning a DSM that has been mistreated before you. My only problem now is getting money out of it.

here is what is wrong:
motor mount
speedometer head
TPS or IAC
ECU capacitors are leaking
rings or pistons
passenger side outer door panel is off, it needs body clips
paint is not bad...one little spot on hood and spoiler...and of course on the rearview mirrors...

here is what is new:
exhaust manifold/gaskets
head gasket (going on 2 years old)
timing belt (replaced w/ head gasket)
catalytic converter
flux pipe before converter
valve cover gasket (repalced shortly after head gasket)
Valves (8 new exhaust and 8 intake reseeded or however you say it)
All the seals were replaced with the valves
Ignition coil
Power transitor
Tires are a year old

mods:
mas hack
more defined shifting mod

symptoms:
cuts out or "coughs" occasionally while going down the road
poor performance
when it is done sputtering it kicks in w/ power you wouldn't believe
the starting problem is described in early post

HOW MUCH SHOULD I ASK FOR THIS?

 

[Boosted1g]

Your cold start problem sounds EXACTLY like the problem I had with my car. Pull the coolant temperature sensor (CTS) and test its resistance at known intervals in temperature. I put off doing this test until one day it took me 10 minutes of cranking to start my car. As soon as i discovered how far off my sensor was reading, I bought a new one and my car started right up. Best of all, this test is free. Just look in a chiltons manual or the service manual for the resistance values.