better know the enemy

[dsmcurse]

Hey every one, just picked up another car, its a SW20 Toyota MR2 turbo with t-tops. As we all know the 4G63 is the king of 4-cylinder boost but i always heard the 3SGTE was the next best thing. I bought this car to become my new daily driver and this way i can put the eclipse under the knife and hand port the cylinder head and a few other top secret tricks up my sleeve.

I thought it would be interesting for you guys see a up close and personal look at toyotas turbo 4 banger. To compare the two side by side (4G63 vs 3SGTE) it becomes evident in the similaritys. Both have cast iron block and all aluiminum head. They both have factory "low-compression", they both come with oil squirters, both have beefy rods.

I bought the car (2 days ago) and right away deceided i wanted to up the horsepower. Im sure if i dyno'd it befor it woulda made 150ish to the back tires. Well, i want at least 300ish to the tires so i figured its 110 thousand mile motor beter be gone through.

Once i get down and into the nitty gritty if anyones at all interested i can post pictures of the factory con-rods. Ive heard theyre beef but ive never personally have seen them yet. Im actually in the shop right now working on this so i can take pictures of the crank and oil squirters soon.

I was planning to put my old hx-40 on this hog but if my goal is only 300whp then i think i migh need a 20g instead the turbo thats on it is a CT27 ? never heard of it but she looks tiny as a t25 been awhile since ive seen a small turbo.

I like how this car is a "poor mans Ferrari" the inside is super sleek and has attitude. The engine drops from the bottom (although i do see how it could be possible to pick from the top) Im totally open to suggestions on what would be a good turbo to use. I really dont feel like joining another car forum... After joining stupid shit like prelude power and kawi ninja and stuff i know for a fact tuners is the best forum. If any one has hands on experience with a 3S motor im all ears

One thing i like is how fatty huge the factory oil drain is from the turbo to the pan. Puts mitsu to shame. One thing i dislike is it has a crappy oil-to-water oil cooler. I want to some how convert to a oil-to-air oil cooler. The car will have AC and power everything. And with 300wheel horse it should be a missel.

I have already ran the idea past Alex (boostdriven) of doin a custom 4G63 Toyota-Bishi swap. nwe have extra block, crank, cp piston, gst tranny, blah blah blah. ALOT OF WORK and at this point its only a pipe-dream... But think how phatty it would be to put down 600whp tuned on dsmlink in a lil SW20 MR2...

Just thought id share some first hand knowledge of some of the competion out there. If any one cares i can update as i go, and agin, im open for turbo suggestions. Thanks

 

[DeadOnArrival]

Haha it would be great to see an Mr2 with a 4g63. Weird swaps are always cool

 

[Xit40]

I always liked that style MR2. Beautiful car. Nice shell you have there and I love the color. If I could find a clean one like that I would be all over it.

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

Looks clean. Never was a huge chrome fan so it needs moar low and better rims. Keep us posted on what you do with her

 

[bisoo369]

This is going to be a good thread, mr2's are sweet. An mr2 actually just popped up on my background slideshow as I'm typing this , it must be a sign.

 

[dsmcurse]

just got engine all the way torn down, it has monster beef rods, pretty decent intake valve size, oil squirters that look like they flow, its bearings were ugly, oil pump flows thru a nice huge opening. its very similar to 4g style. Ill post pics in the morning as im just shuttin down shop to leave.

 

[WES_393]

The 3S is a nice engine, but it's definitely no 4g63. Then again, I only have experience with the AWD version. My car buddy's are diehard Celica fans.

6262 equipped GT-Four from across the pond.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

This one is currently getting the guts from a ST215 Caldina

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[dsmcurse]

Damn dude!! That is very cool. If I'm correct the first version is called Celica "all trac" and the second version is called celica "GT4". Its got a knock sensor which is good. As of now all I got is a APEXI SuperAFC for tuning... dang. What's the toyota version of "dsmlink" is there one? What would you recomend for that? If 300 whp is what my goal is what injectors would you recomend? Dsm450? MK3 supra turbo injectors? It has a plastic side mount intercooler I'm thinkin a trunk mount or bottom mount huge intercooler. The 3S engine come with a (excuse my wording) CYCLONE intake mannifold. I would like to delete this and have it wide open the whole time. What can you recomend for. A emissions sytem delete?

 

[SuperTrooper]

That style MR2 was always one of my favorite rides, never had the fortune of owning one though. Good luck with the build, please keeping posting the progress!

 

[JosephMiranda]

Theres an mr2 shell that looks in good condition its been parked at a shop for a long time now just wasting away.

 

[GofaST4life]

You will love the 3sgte!

IMO it can take a bit more abuse right out of the box than the 4g63, but the aftermarket is no where near as large. Also, its a non-interference motor.

I miss mine everyday. Truly wish I could have kept it.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/hangout/428804-my-first-awd-turbo.html

There are MR2 Forums out there.
www.alltrac.net will have tons of information on the motor for you. They are some great guys IMO I think there is A LOT less BS on that forum than this one.

 

[gixrman]

Hmm.. I ripped the electric power steering units out of two of them at the local pick and pull. They were both N/A cars. Transplanted one in my GSX. Could you take a picture of the EPMS diagnostic port for me? I think I pulled the right one but the cars were pretty gutted when I got to them.

 

[Abe'sGST]

That's a nice buy, car looks in good shape.

You will love the 3sgte!

IMO it can take a bit more abuse right out of the box than the 4g63, but the aftermarket is no where near as large. Also, its a non-interference motor.

I miss mine everyday. Truly wish I could have kept it.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/hangout/428804-my-first-awd-turbo.html

There are MR2 Forums out there.
Celica All Trac Homepage will have tons of information on the motor for you. They are some great guys IMO I think there is A LOT less BS on that forum than this one.

Man whatever happened to yours?

 

[BogusSVO]

Why is it I see threads like this when I am starting to work on about the same thing????

I have the head on the bench so I can can set it up for shimless buckets and GSC cams..

 

[GPTourer]

Just when I "forget" about these cars, one seems to pop up. Good luck with the build. Don't let that "hose of death" or whatever those guys talk about with those cars get you down.

 

[dsmcurse]

"hose of death" please explain more? thanks

 

[FLASH1970]

I've always liked these. Then they went to the terrible looking convertible on the third gen ones... sheesh those are ugly. Congrats on the purchase and good luck with the build.

 

[GPTourer]

"hose of death" please explain more? thanks

Oops, it seems they call it "hose from hell" just some hard to get at coolant hose that wears out on those cars.

 

[dsmcurse]

ya at the oil filter housing. it dont seem bad at all out on the work bench, BUT, i could picture how it would be a PIA if engine was all rigged and installed in car

I'll post pics of all the guts that i pulled outa the engine last night. Just gotta finish some ball joints on a stupid rail-road truck then i can goof off at work

 

[Jesse2012]

Nice find! I did a turbo swap on my friend's mr2, these cars are such a pain to work on. Taking the engine right out was definitely the way to go

 

[dsmcurse]

You will love the 3sgte!

IMO it can take a bit more abuse right out of the box than the 4g63, but the aftermarket is no where near as large. Also, its a non-interference motor.

I miss mine everyday. Truly wish I could have kept it.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/hangout/428804-my-first-awd-turbo.html

There are MR2 Forums out there.
Celica All Trac Homepage will have tons of information on the motor for you. They are some great guys IMO I think there is A LOT less BS on that forum than this one.

I enjoyed the link. Thanks for sharing. Car looks awesome. Funny how celica had top mount intercooler with no intercooler fan but mr2 has side mount intercooler with a intercooler fan. Strange.

Any suggestions for a turbo guys? Or is a ct27 worth using? It looks so so so small. Maybe I'm just to used to lookin at HX family of turbos...

 

[WES_393]

As of now all I got is a APEXI SuperAFC for tuning... dang. What's the toyota version of "dsmlink" is there one? What would you recomend for that? If 300 whp is what my goal is what injectors would you recomend? Dsm450? MK3 supra turbo injectors? It has a plastic side mount intercooler I'm thinkin a trunk mount or bottom mount huge intercooler. The 3S engine come with a (excuse my wording) CYCLONE intake mannifold. I would like to delete this and have it wide open the whole time. What can you recomend for. A emissions sytem delete?

I'm not sure what tuning options are available, all the Celica's I've worked on use AEM EMS and the owners swear by it. For injectors you gonna want at least 550's. The 7M injectors are only 440cc if I'm not mistaken. The 2JZ injectors are 550, but there probably hard to find and more expensive than some Evo 550's.

The "cyclone" part of the manifold is a separate unit that's sandwiched between the head and intake manifold. I'm not sure if you could just remove it and use shorter bolts, but it seems possible. You could remove the actuator and secure the shaft with a spring or tack welds. If you wanted to remove the shaft and plates completely, you would have to plug the holes somehow.

I enjoyed the link. Thanks for sharing. Car looks awesome. Funny how celica had top mount intercooler with no intercooler fan but mr2 has side mount intercooler with a intercooler fan. Strange.

Any suggestions for a turbo guys? Or is a ct27 worth using? It looks so so so small. Maybe I'm just to used to lookin at HX family of turbos...

The top mounts are OK, they just get heat soaked by the engine pretty quick. I know many of the older Celica's came with a water-air top mount with it's own little water pump and heat exchanger, which I've always thought was kind of a weak setup compared to the air-air design.

The CT27 actually isn't all that small. The compressor is similar to a T04E if I'm not mistaken, so it can pump out more than enough air for 300hp. The supposed problem is the turbine side- It's a pretty big restriction.

 

[wmrcs]

That thing looks like a monster truck.

 

[dsmcurse]

Thers no engine in it so it looks lifted trust me, she looks and sits right. I've got the engine. Completley torn apart, I do plan to delete the cyclone flapper plate all together. This will make the boost brace no longer meet up at the valve cover. But that's ok with me. I picked up a stock 6bolt mitsu rod from alex so I can take a excact side by side picture of a 4G63 con rod vs's a 3SGTE rod. The toyotas are meaty. I will make sure to post pictures of it tomorrow. Also, the oil slingers are massive

 

[screamingdemon]

I tried my damnedest when I was working in Florida to find a MR2 turbo that was in clean shape for a decent price. Needless to say that didn't happen. I'm definitely jealous to say the least.