help please with timing, car running opposite

[Scoobystyl]

I just redid the timing belt on my 6 bolt because i was at 20* btdc, but now when i start the car the engine sucks air through the exhaust and pushes exhaust out the intake, car runs! 150 psi accross the board.
What is going on with this thing how would i get the intake and exhaust valves to open opposite of eachother?

 

[NHerron]

Well firstly, if you're talking about spark firing 20*btdc you needed to adjust the CAS.

And be glad you didn't bend any valves because it sounds like you really do have it completely opposite, probably the cam dowels. Click here and notice the cam gear dowels are pointed up with all the timing marks in place.

 

[Scoobystyl]

The cas wouldt adjust it enough 20 is as close as i could get it, it was at 35-40, the one thing that i cant figure out is when cylinder 1 is at tdc, where are the cams supposed to be in correlation to that, something like 1st lobe on intake cam pointing up and exhaust pointing up also, i cant seem to figure it out

 

[bryanwheat]

The cas wouldt adjust it enough 20 is as close as i could get it, it was at 35-40, the one thing that i cant figure out is when cylinder 1 is at tdc, where are the cams supposed to be in correlation to that, something like 1st lobe on intake cam pointing up and exhaust pointing up also, i cant seem to figure it out

Just line up the timing marks on the crank and cam gears. If you line them up correctly than you don't need to worry about anything else. How do you even know that it is 35-40 the marks on the timing cover only go from 0-20.

 

[NHerron]

#1 & #4 pistons are at TDC when the crank timing mark on thin plate is pointed to timing mark on front case. Or the mark on the pulley is pointed to the plastic timing cover 0*

 

[Scoobystyl]

The marks on the timing cover read 0-15 and it was hanging out about the 5 distance from the 15 mark, ive got the crank timing down what i cant get right is timing the cams i guess, lets say i have cylinder 1 at tdc and then the dowel pins on the cams pointing up everything should be right? is that correct?

 

[bryanwheat]

The marks on the timing cover read 0-15 and it was hanging out about the 5 distance from the 15 mark, ive got the crank timing down what i cant get right is timing the cams i guess, lets say i have cylinder 1 at tdc and then the dowel pins on the cams pointing up everything should be right? is that correct?

The dowels should be pointing up, but the marks on the cam gears should also be lined up. If they aren't lined up than it isn't right.

 

[WES_393]

Dowel pins should be pointing straight up and your timing marks on the cams need to be aligned like so:

 

[Scoobystyl]

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is it possible that the po installed the cam gears using the wrong holes for the dowel pins? as is the exhaust dowel is to the right and the intake dowel is pointing down, the first lobes are point at eachother when before they were pointing away from eachother, if i set the dowels up the timing marks also point up

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[bryanwheat]

The wrong dowels holes are being used. I hope that you haven't cranked the engine over with it set like that.

 

[Scoobystyl]

both are wrong? the cams look right though? As #4 is at tdc the exhaust cam pushes the valve closed as the intake opens, what would you suggest doing this is honestly all new to me

 

[bryanwheat]

The cams are not right, both dowels should point straight up when 1 and 4 are at tdc. If you have been cranking on it like that than you likely have bent valves by now.

 

[Scoobystyl]

I havent cranked it like that, once it started running backwards i took it all apart and got on here, if i have both dowels point up doesnt that make the intake and exhaust valves open at the same time?

 

[bryanwheat]

I havent cranked it like that, once it started running backwards i took it all apart and got on here, if i have both dowels point up doesnt that make the intake and exhaust valves open at the same time?

No because the lobes on the cams aren't in the same place. The cams are different from each other.

 

[Scoobystyl]

okay i wasnt sure, now one more problem i took the exhaust cam gear off and installed it correctly but cant get the intake gear off is it okay if i just leave that one with the dowel up and the timing mark up and make a new mark on it a quarter of the distance back towards the inside?

 

[bryanwheat]

No, take it off. You can get a wrench on the cam to hold the cam from turning. Make sure that you torque them on with a torque wrench to 65 ft/lbs. Also zero out the adjusters on the gears and replace the missing nut. This is not something that you want to half ass anything because it can ruin your engine if you do it wrong.

 

[NHerron]

And don't be tempted to let the wrench (holding the cam from turning) rest up against the cylinder head deck, make sure someone holds it otherwise you might make a nice crack

I'm not gonna guarantee it'll break but I was never "adventurous" enough to try and find out

 

[bryanwheat]

And don't be tempted to let the wrench (holding the cam from turning) rest up against the cylinder head deck, make sure someone holds it otherwise you might make a nice crack

I'm not gonna guarantee it'll break but I was never "adventurous" enough to try and find out

I some times lay a wooden block between the head surface and the wrench if the exhaust bolt is really tight. It won't crack the head if you don't, but it will make a little indention in it if you don't put the block there.

 

[NHerron]

Good point on the wood

Like I said I never tried letting the wrench up against the head and the "cons" to me were either possibly breaking the wall OR making a nice indentation on the surface. But that's good to know I could get away with no wood / second person though if need be...

 

[Scoobystyl]

It wont come out theres way to much torque on it, holding the cam tight i managed to bend a cornwell wrench the exhaust i didnt have a problem with, its stuck on there until i can get a impact on it, and i tried everything, should be fine as long as i remember to line up my new tick mark withe the other

 

[bryanwheat]

It wont come out theres way to much torque on it, holding the cam tight i managed to bend a cornwell wrench the exhaust i didnt have a problem with, its stuck on there until i can get a impact on it, and i tried everything, should be fine as long as i remember to line up my new tick mark withe the other

You aren't turning it hard enough, keep trying. It actually won't be fine unless you have the mark on the gear to like it up properly. I am telling you do it properly or sell it to someone who will. You are going to ruin the engine.

 

[Scoobystyl]

as long as my new mark is a quarter of the distance of the whole circle its the same as lining it up on the mark that the manufacturer made, the only difference is that instead of the manufactures lines lining up the exhaust will be in the correct spot while the intake mark will point up

And not being able to get the bolt out didnt have to do with me being a sissy it had to do with the actual tool could not do the job

 

[NHerron]

Get creative with a pipe etc. to slip over your ratchet.

Rest a piece of wood, use an adjustable wrench on the hex of the cam, let the wrench rest up against the wood. Now take a ratchet/socket on the bolt head and use a pipe or something to really get leverage on it. You'll get it eventually.

 

[bryanwheat]

Are you talking about the wrench that is holding the cam, or the wrench that you have on the bolt. A wrench big enough to fit the hex section on the cam will on no way bend with 5 times the force that it takes to get this loose. For the bolt use a 1/2 inch socket and a breaker bar and not a wrench.

 

[Scoobystyl]

I used a 2 foot pipe on the wrench (for the cam gear bolt), i also tried using my torque wrench with a socket and it maxed out at(450 ft lbs) and i dont have a breaker bar but if theres 450 ft lbs or more on it i dont think a breaker bar would help and id also rather not risk breaking the bolt