Steps to take after getting larger injectors

[nwbDSM]

Hi, here is my current setup.

- 16g turbo
- 255 walbro
- stock injectors
- side mount intercooler
- stock fpr
- DSMLink V2.5

Now, I'm going to install the following.

- Denso 720 cc
- Aeromotive AFPR
- FMIC

I got some ideas of what number I need to use for the global and deadtime settings from these pages HERE 1 and HERE 2

Now, what I want to make sure is the steps to take. Here is what I have in mind.

1. Unhook battery and install those parts.
2. Do boost leak test

3. Here is what I'm not sure. I heard that with DSMLink V2.5, the settings are not saved, so I need to load them and save them somewhere, right. Then, after installing everything, I need to reload the settings back to ECU, right?

4. If everything goes well, then, when should I adjust the global and deadtime? Should I do it before starting a car? Here is another part that I'm not quite sure. I am worried about starting the engine and it would damage the engine b/c of the larger injectors without changing the settings.

The car is currently running or idling fine with the stock injectors, but I have some issues with high RPM. It maxes out the injector duty, so that's why I am getting the larger ones. I will eventually get V.3, but for now I need to make sure that I still can use the car (without beating it) after installing these parts.

Any suggestion will be appreciated.

Thank you in advance and sorry for the long posting.

 

[BadManGSX]

Once you get everything installed and do a boost leak test I would run the fuel pump by switching it on with either the DSMlink or by the connector on your firewall. When the fuel pump is on and running constant then adjust your Fuel Pressure Regulator to the correct fuel pressure setting. You need to remove the vacuum line from the FPR and plug it. Set it at 37psi for a 1g and I think a 2g is at 43 PSI. You should set Global and Deadtime settings before you start the car. There is an ECMLink wiki that gives good base settings for all different size injectors. Once you start the car and get it into good operating temperature I would add the ISC to your live stream. By doing this you can turn your BISS screw until the ISC reads right around 30. That should get you idling pretty good. Your also going to want to set an idle rpm.... The best thing you could probably do would be to go to ECMTuning, Inc. This will get you going on the right track. As far as saving your settings. I do not have version 2.5.. I have V3. On mine there is a tab at the bottom of the screen that says "save to ecu". I would have to imagine that V2.5 is the same way but I do not know for sure. But that is what you would do to save to your ECU. Hope this helps.

 

[gofer]

It makes me happy to see a "beginner" so to speak, posting questions like this and not asking how to run 11's... You just need to update your profile because its impossible to tell what kind of DSM you've got and what else you've done to it outside of what you posted above.

Get everything installed and give it a good BLT, this will ensure your injector seals aren't leaking air. After you do that turn the key to "ON" and connect you laptop up to ECMLink.

1. Go to your Misc. tab and click the "turn on fuel pump" box. Once selected you should hear the fuel pump kick on and start pushing fuel through the system. Go out and adjust your afpr to 37psi (1g) or 43psi (2g). Once its good, un-check the activate fuel pump box and it will shut off.
2. You'll have 720cc injectors installed so you've got to correct for the additional fuel.
   
   (450 / 720) - 1 = -0.37​
   Go into your Fuel tab and set your global settings to -37% and leave your deadtimes at ZERO.
3. Now you can start your car and let it warm up to operating temperature (180* coolant temp) and then follow this demo video to set your idle/cruise fuel trims. ECMLink: Fuel Trim Demo

This is assuming you've done all the other necessary steps already in ECMLink to tune your current setup. Such as adjusting your TPS, BISS, etc. Since you are using V2.5 the changes you make WILL save on the ECU until you disconnect the battery or remove the ECU, then you'll lose everything. The good news is that you can save the tune on your laptop so if your battery ever dies or you have to pull the battery for maintenance you can connect the laptop and load the tune.

 

[Calan]

I would suggest skipping the 720cc injectors and going bigger. With DSMLink, 720's are an "in between" size that doesn't gain you much, and you'll quickly be replacing them with even moderate power increases in the future. And, there isn't a huge difference in price between those and some good 1150's or so...especially on the used market.

Sounds like you are off to a good start.

 

[snowborder714]

3. Here is what I'm not sure. I heard that with DSMLink V2.5, the settings are not saved, so I need to load them and save them somewhere, right. Then, after installing everything, I need to reload the settings back to ECU, right?

You are correct. For 2g owners, if you disconnect the battery, you will have to reload all settings no matter what version of software you are using. The easiest way to do this is take a log just before disconnecting the battery. Then after you reconnect it, open that log and go through each screen and save the settings to the ECU (or use the "Save all to ECU" button if available).

I would recommend downloading the latest version of the v3 application and using it as it'll make this job much, much easier. Plus when you need log help, it will easier for us to help you.

4. If everything goes well, then, when should I adjust the global and deadtime? Should I do it before starting a car? Here is another part that I'm not quite sure. I am worried about starting the engine and it would damage the engine b/c of the larger injectors without changing the settings.

Yes, you need to make any injector settings before starting the car.

Once you get everything installed and do a boost leak test I would run the fuel pump by switching it on with either the DSMlink or by the connector on your firewall. When the fuel pump is on and running constant then adjust your Fuel Pressure Regulator to the correct fuel pressure setting. You need to remove the vacuum line from the FPR and plug it.

You do not need to remove and plug the FPR vacuum line if setting fuel pressure with the car off. This is best as you can put a zip tie on the vacuum line and never have to take it off again. Just turn the key to ON (not starting the car) and enable the fuel pump via link.

Set it at 37psi for a 1g and I think a 2g is at 43 PSI.

42.6 for a 2g

 

[BadManGSX]

You do not need to remove and plug the FPR vacuum line if setting fuel pressure with the car off.

HAHA... WOW.. I can't believe I did that. Thanks for the correction

 

[nwbDSM]

Once you get everything installed and do a boost leak test I would run the fuel pump by switching it on with either the DSMlink or by the connector on your firewall. When the fuel pump is on and running constant then adjust your Fuel Pressure Regulator to the correct fuel pressure setting. You need to remove the vacuum line from the FPR and plug it. Set it at 37psi for a 1g and I think a 2g is at 43 PSI. You should set Global and Deadtime settings before you start the car. There is an ECMLink wiki that gives good base settings for all different size injectors. Once you start the car and get it into good operating temperature I would add the ISC to your live stream. By doing this you can turn your BISS screw until the ISC reads right around 30. That should get you idling pretty good. Your also going to want to set an idle rpm.... The best thing you could probably do would be to go to ECMTuning, Inc. This will get you going on the right track. As far as saving your settings. I do not have version 2.5.. I have V3. On mine there is a tab at the bottom of the screen that says "save to ecu". I would have to imagine that V2.5 is the same way but I do not know for sure. But that is what you would do to save to your ECU. Hope this helps.

Thanks BadManGSX and gofer. 11's is a way in the future question. I just came into DSM & Turbo world, so I just need to more about the car, setting up, and tuning at this point. I don't want to skip the step to "how to make my car fast" yet.

I'm bad with abbreviations. What do ISC and BISS stand for?

@gofer, this is not to challenge your suggestion in anyway. You mentioned that "leave your deadtimes at ZERO." From ECMLink wiki page, it suggests that I should set my deadtimes for Denso 720 cc to 405. But when I looked at the video, it looks like that the deadtimes should be adjusted later.

So, now should I go ahead and put in the number ECMLink recommends or should I do that later when adjusting fuel trim?

This is a bit off topic, but just want to get some ideas. I see that I have to relocate / modify the PS pipe when installing FMIC. What do people usually do? Can I bend it? I also plan to do some autocross, so I'm not sure if re-routing it is a good idea? Any thought.

Thanks.

I would recommend downloading the latest version of the v3 application and using it as it'll make this job much, much easier. Plus when you need log help, it will easier for us to help you.

Thank you snowborder714. You have been helping me out in almost every question.

Yeah, I have v3 software installed. I know I can log it with v3 software, but can I also make adjustment through v3 software or do I still need to make adjustments through v2.5 software? This is still what I'm not clear.

I would suggest skipping the 720cc injectors and going bigger. With DSMLink, 720's are an "in between" size that doesn't gain you much, and you'll quickly be replacing them with even moderate power increases in the future. And, there isn't a huge difference in price between those and some good 1150's or so...especially on the used market.

Sounds like you are off to a good start.

calan, thanks for your advice.

It's funny though my injectors keep getting bigger and bigger. First, I've been suggested to use 560cc for my 16g turbo which makes sense. Later, someone said that I should go bigger to give room to grow, 660cc, which also makes more sense. Then, I found a good 720cc set, so I decided to go with it (making even more room to grow). Now, your suggestion makes much more sense too, I should go with even bigger. I already got it though, so I guess I'll stick with 720cc for now.

 

[BadManGSX]

ISC stands for Idle Stepper Control. Basically because it is a STEPPER motor. It is attached to your throttle body and gives fine adjustments to hold the idle speed as steady as possible. Think of it as a second throttle plate.. kind of..but not really haha. The BISS screw is the adjustment screw on the top of your throttle body. It is an idle adjustment screw. There should be a factory plastic cap over it that you might have to remove to get to it (decent sized phillips head). Most of the time the plastic caps are not there if someone has tried adjusting it before and never put it back on. There is a rubber o-ring under the screw that you want to make sure isn't leaking when doing your boost leak test. It is a common problem as well as the BISS screw being stripped out. So make sure you double check that to avoid any goofy idling problems or leaking under "boost".

 

[snowborder714]

You can log and tune (make adjustments) with the v3 software.

 

[Calan]

It's funny though my injectors keep getting bigger and bigger. First, I've been suggested to use 560cc for my 16g turbo which makes sense. Later, someone said that I should go bigger to give room to grow, 660cc, which also makes more sense. Then, I found a good 720cc set, so I decided to go with it (making even more room to grow). Now, your suggestion makes much more sense too, I should go with even bigger. I already got it though, so I guess I'll stick with 720cc for now.

We've all been there.

Increasing injector size in small steps is a holdover from when there weren't many tuning options around. About all you had to work with were the MAF-T and SAFC piggy back devices, and a few custom chips. Most of these tuning solutions could only realistically support injectors up to around 700cc or so, due to deadtime adjustments and other issues. So finding the "right" injectors for a given small turbo setup was a more precise science.

Another factor was cost; there used to be a much larger gap between small injectors which were readily available, and the large one-off custom modified sets that were hard to find.

With ECMLink and other packages, you can run as large an injector as you want as far as the ECU is concerned, and still have good idle and low RPM performance. And the cost gap has narrowed significantly, so there isn't really a reason anymore to upgrade them in steps. Just go big once and be done with it.

I wish I had the money back that I lost on buying a set of injectors and then selling them a while later (at a loss) to upgrade to the next larger size that I thought I needed. Off the top of my head, I've gone through 450s > 550s (twice) > FIC 650s (which were very nice) > 680s (which were actually some oddball weird alien things) > Lucas 1200s (complete crap) > to my current FIC 1250 BlueMax set which are excellent. There were probably more along the way that I just can't remember.

Run what ya got for now, but keep it in mind for the next time the power bug hits you.

 

[nwbDSM]

You can log and tune (make adjustments) with the v3 software.

Good to know. I thought I could not use it.

Run what ya got for now, but keep it in mind for the next time the power bug hits you.

will do, Sir


I actually just grabbed a set of BPR7ES-11 plugs (can't find BPR7ES anywhere), but I'm not sure if these are the right ones. I know that the gap for these plugs is 0.044" and how much should I gap the plugs for my car?

 

[95 tsi 95 gst]

id go with 850s

 

[snowborder714]

The -11 just means it has a 1.1mm (.044") gap. Gap it down to the stock gap of .028" and you'll be fine, or go a little lower if you've upped the boost a good bit.

 

[gofer]

@gofer, this is not to challenge your suggestion in anyway. You mentioned that "leave your deadtimes at ZERO." From ECMLink wiki page, it suggests that I should set my deadtimes for Denso 720 cc to 405. But when I looked at the video, it looks like that the deadtimes should be adjusted later.

So, now should I go ahead and put in the number ECMLink recommends or should I do that later when adjusting fuel trim?

Those deadtime settings aren't end all be all, they are there to get you in the ballpark.

I suggest setting your globals, leaving deadtimes a zero, then start the car and follow that video. Once you get your airflow calibrated at idle then you start adjusting your deadtimes to get fuel trims adjusted.

 

[nwbDSM]

Those deadtime settings aren't end all be all, they are there to get you in the ballpark.

I suggest setting your globals, leaving deadtimes a zero, then start the car and follow that video. Once you get your airflow calibrated at idle then you start adjusting your deadtimes to get fuel trims adjusted.

Sounds good. I will follow your advice. Thank you.

 

[eastace6]

i just got a used v2 ecmlink set up for $350 i.e. obdII connector,socketed ecu with v2 chip,and down loaded the software from ecmlink homepage will my setting be saved on my ecm or will i have to load it everytimei turn my car back on??

 

[nwbDSM]

i just got a used v2 ecmlink set up for $350 i.e. obdII connector,socketed ecu with v2 chip,and down loaded the software from ecmlink homepage will my setting be saved on my ecm or will i have to load it everytimei turn my car back on??

Hi, once you loaded the settings, you don't need to re-load again as long as your batter is still connected. So, if you unplug your battery for some maintenance, such as electrical works or fuel injectors works, etc. you would need to reload your settings back to the ECU again. For some reasons (don't know why, I'm new too), the ECU doesn't have a place to store the settings when losing power.

Hope this helps.

 

[eastace6]

that more then helps i didnt know if v2 was like v3 with the settings you have set for the car thanks man

 

[TJCTalon]

So It doesnt matter what version you have, if you disconnect your battery you have to reload your tune?

Thought v3 fixxed that

 

[snowborder714]

That is correct. For the 2g owners, v2.5 will lose settings when you remove the battery, but v3 will not. For the 1g owners, this has never been an issue.

 

[turbojoeg]

V3 for a 2g is a must in my book. I've seen guys write down a whole tune so they can put it all back in later after installing an alternator .

 

[snowborder714]

Then they obviously didn't know how to save a settings file in v2.5 and reload it