external wastegate install [resolved]

[crimsondragon]

I read threads that say to install it with the side port going to MBC and top port either leaving it open or to the intake manifold/compressor housing. However, I hooked mine up via Tial's way.
http://www.tialmedia.com/documents/w3_tial_wginstall.pdf
At the moment, I have a green spring inside. I do not know whether it's large or small since I have nothing to compare it to. I have the AVCR set to off. I'm boosting up to .7 till the wg opens. Small green spring is .5 while large green is .9 so I'm right in between. This might be due to my boost source on the intake manifold being overtaxed. I have a boost gauge, AFPR, AVCR sensor and solenoid, and the wg side port going to it. What's the proper way to install it? Any advantages to leaving the top port open?

 

[LTUDSM]

well this is how i did mines:

i left the top open,because i don't use any electronic boost controllers.I taped side port from manual boost conntroller to the side of the wastegate.

If your WG opens at 7 psi,you got a small green spring. Thats what i use with big blue spring combo. IT opens at 21.7Psi

You should leave the top port open,no lines attached.....

 

[crimsondragon]

I meant it's opening at .7 bar which equates to roughly 10 psi. I am using an EBC so I'm not sure how it'll work. From my understanding hooking up an EBC and MBC is the same. The solenoid has two ports. One going to the intake manifold and one going to the WG to meter the air going to it.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

You don't need and don't want to hook up a manual and electronic boost controller to the same wastegate. The top one you can leave alone, just use the side port. Hook it up just like this.

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James

 

[crimsondragon]

Bear with me since I only have a vague understanding of how WG works. If I hook it up your way, that means that I will only be able to decrease the time it opens. With the solenoid closed, none of the air will get to the lower portion of the WG and it will work on spring alone, correct? Add in boost and it'll open sooner to the spring pressure. If I connect it to the top port and leave the bottom open, I can delay the opening of the WG thus giving me the ability to raise the PSI level above the spring pressure, right?

Now, for Tial's and Apexi's manuals. FYI both manuals state to have bottom see intake manifold/compressor housing pressure. The top is to be connected to the BC. In this situation, the bottom portion will always see the pressure the engine sees. The top will be controlled by the BC. Theoretically, this setup will see just about any kind of pressure you want with any spring pressure as long as there is a spring pressure. The BC, depending on the setting can fully open allowing the top and bottom of the WG to negate each other and keep the WG closed by spring pressure alone or the top can be metered to allow exhaust gas pressure and intake manifold pressure to open the WG. Am I correct?

*for the record, I looked up on wikipedia right after I posted this and just had everything explained to me and further more. *

 

[Ajax]

Heres how I have mine hooked up.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Honestly, this is probably the hardest for people to understand, but the top and bottom act the same way. If you hook it up just like i have it, which is the simplest, you will be able to control the WG opening to a certain psi. So say if you have the EBC or MBC set to zero, that is zero above the spring pressure. So if you have a .5 atm, which is 7.3 psi, you will get that when the MBC/EBC is set to zero. You CANT BOOST LOWER THAN THE SMALLEST SPRING PRESSURE.

Once you understand that, you will be able to turn the boost up. I have two pictures that I just ran out and took for your viewing pleasure. FYI, i run 13psi and my spring pressure is 7 psi. LASTLY, and VERY IMPORTANT- DO NOT double the spring pressure set in the WG. You run the risk off floating the spring and giving you erratic boost.

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This one shows how i have it hooked up to the SIDE of the Tial WG.

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This one shows how i have it hooked up the the MBC and boost source. For the record, that is a Evo 3 16g with a 14b side pipe and a turboXS MBC.

James

PS: THIS BETTER MAKE THINGS CLEAR!!!

 

[crimsondragon]

Unfortunately I don't see how this is better than using both ports. Sorry but I do get what you're saying. I'll definitely give it a try and take note of the results. Also, is my spring large or small?

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[Ajax]

Does it sit in the inside or outside lip if you look at this link I have you might get an idea. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...91336-changing-external-wastegate-spring.html

 

[black_gst]

i have this exact setup with an ebc and if you want to double your spring pressure run a boost line to a good pressure source pre intake mani to the top side of the ext WG. i have a 1 bar spring and i boost 22lbs and i can go much higher the 22psi with the right gas the lowest boost i can run is 18psi because of the spring i have. i have had this setup for abut 6 months now and i love it

 

[crimsondragon]

Does it sit in the inside or outside lip if you look at this link I have you might get an idea. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...91336-changing-external-wastegate-spring.html

From the looks of it, it seems to be the smaller spring. To further support that claim, I reaaranged the setup to what Vette posted and I spiked to at most .55 bar before settling to .51 ish. Thanks for the help.

 

[bmoha2]

Post pics!

 

[crimsondragon]

Of what? The setup? Or pictures of the AVCR hookup? I'll take pics of the AVCR hookup tomorrow morning.
Picture 269 - BEP T04E 50 trim turbo, Forced Performance Race Manifold, Punishment Racing O2 housing dump, Tial 38mm wastegate, Swain Tech coating DSMtuners Gallery

 

[bmoha2]

I am really considering doing this mod as my car sounds like a diesel starting up cold from the FP BigT28 wastegate not sealing properly. I was really interested in the clearance between it and the radiator and the dipstick. Great pic.

 

[crimsondragon]

With this setup, you get maybe like half an inch of clearance between the rad and the WG. I don't know about the smaller version Tial came out with though. You might actually be able to fit a slim fan in between with it. But I don't know who would go through the trouble with getting a V-band welded on and stuff to the O2 housing.

 

[selmerguy]

I know this thread says resolved but.... it would be confusing for someone looking for external wastegate info. Top port, bottom port, or both......?? This has been debated time and time again. And to be honest if you get the right boost level then you are right. The rule of thumb is you can only get 1.5 x the boost of a wastegate spring using the bottom port. So with a boost controller controlling the bottom port only say you have a 14 psi spring. If you run the boost controller shut or no vac line at all the wastegate should blow open at 21 psi. So using the bottom port you should be able to get consistant boost anywhere from spring pressure or 1.5x more.

This is where the top port comes in. That port puts force on the wastegate keeping it closed. So it works in reverse. With the same 14 psi spring; If you run your boost controller to the top only and it is shut you (allowing no positive pressure to affect the diaphram) you should get 1.5 x spring pressure(21 psi) Now if you open the boost controller and allow pressure to be put on the valve keeping it closed your boost will go up. It is a fairly simple concept.

This concept goes to shit if you're wasegate cannot flow enough to keep up with your turbo..But if you are at that level you are probably not reading this post for info.

So to answer the question you really need to know what boost level you want and what spring is in your wastegate.

I know people will want to argue the point that you can get better responce using both the top and bottom ports with a EBC. This I will not dissagree with. But it takes alot of messing around to find the sweetspot this way just for a little spool time. So the choice is yours.

Sam

 

[MIXIA]

Hi crimsondragon if you have the abcr you have 2 ways to connect the wastegate. Like a MBC living the top open or like Ajax post (just make sure that the turbo source was a different line that is going to the intake)
On my opinion the 2 way is better you have much control of boost on high rpm, just for test the connect the boost source direct to the bottom of the ext wastegage, and make a pull if every thing is ok the wastegate will open on psi spring.


Martin