Turbo upgrade advice

[Srt4RacerDave]

Knowing that I will need larger injectors and a new way to manage fuel, I am looking for advice on a turbo upgrade. I want my car to get low 12's high 11's in the 1/4 with little problem. I also want something that will bolt onto the stock manifold and can have the option to be internally waste gated. I was looking at a Mitsu 20g and the FP Red. I don't want to get something too big, but I'd rather have a big turbo and not use it's full capacity then a smaller turbo that needs to be maxed out to get the results I want. I have Crower 272/272 cams so I would like a turbo that can take advantage of them. The 20g is in my price range but I'm afraid I'm not going to get that much more out of it over my current 16g. Thanks in advanced.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

I'm not going to suggest a turbo just yet. What am I'm going to say is that if your looking for a turbo that will put you into the 11's (on pump or race fuel) you should at least consider going with a t3 setup or moving to a better Mitsu bolt on manifold (like the FP race manifold). As for the turbo, the 20g is anice piece, but like you said, you might not be as happy as it since you already have a 16g. Consider a FP3052 or an s258 from Bull's Eye Power.

 

[Srt4RacerDave]

Due to my budget I'd really like to keep it compatible with my current manifold. I will be using 93-94 octane pump gas in my car on street and track. To be honest the turbo will probably be used on the street more then the track. I'm looking at the FP3052 right now and it seems pretty nice. Any other suggestions?

 

[tsi_awd_matlo]

Fp green, bolt on and you can run it internal wg....

For some reasons, i'll never touch to a Bull's Eye Power turbo...

Fp made there name for a while ..

 

[JusMX141]

A TD05H 20G would be excellent for a street car running below 25psi. Anything above that and the turbine wheel will become a restriction. A good buddy of mine ran an 11.79 on a TD05H 20G @25psi with a little motor work done to a 6-bolt swapped '94 TSi AWD. Another friend ran in the 12.5's at 18psi with a TD05H 20G in his full-weight '95 TSi AWD. Lots of growing room, there.

If you're running that much boost on something internally-gated, you'll want the smallest flapper available (probably 31mm) and you may even need an upgraded wastegate actuator. Holset actuators have about the stiffest spring available.

A FP Red is just wrong for something street driven.

 

[SiNiST3R]

With what you have already might want to look into meth injection. I run 26psi on the e16g with 0 knock. Meth is almost the best mod I ever did besides dsmlink. I DD my car and have been running meth for about 4months.

 

[jrohner]

Holset HX35 with the DSM Bolton exhaust housing.

 

[Dsmboy1991]

I have always been a fan of the 20g. Especially if you are on a budget and do not want to switch out manifolds. The 20g will give you the power range you are looking for and will not slow you too much in spool time in comparison to the 16g.

With a proper tune, the 20g will put you to your goal with out a problem especially with the 272 cams.

 

[jrohner]

I don't think a 20g's spool can be compared to a 16g; 16g's spool is amazing and their torque is more than amazing. His goals could also be met with a 16g with cams and good tuning if he needed more yet just get a good intake manifold.

 

[SiNiST3R]

I've tested out all the mitsu turbos form 14b to 20g I keep going back to the e16g this is my 4th time from having 2 dsms. His goals can be reached with the e16g easy with meth and dsmlink ditch that afc and do you DSM a favor! DMSlink V3 hits the market in a few more days the 15th. Bigger is not allways better I learned that the hard way going though 4 trannys ect and DD. I been as high as a 60-1 and low as a t25. My next turbo is the s258 T3 setup. But the little e16 does wonders for now

 

[jrohner]

16g's are quite an amazing little turbo.

I would go with a bullseye 50 trim, before a 20g. They are like 800 bucks, not a bad deal IMO. Also, ones that are slightly bigger are the same amount of money.

 

[SiNiST3R]

BTW what are you running right now as far as times? Boost ect, what is your AF/R?

 

[-TunedDSM-]

Holset HX35 with the DSM Bolton exhaust housing.

I agree, I'll be going with a Holset when I've had enough fun with the Evo III 16g. Start reading up:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/145691-holset-turbos.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/192083-holset-turbos-part-2-a.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/274459-holset-turbos-part-3-a.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/303969-holset-turbos-part-4-a.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/314629-holset-turbos-part-5-a.html#post151666559

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/312186-holset-part-thread-only.html

 

[Srt4RacerDave]

My AF/R is pretty spot on. It's running a tad rich but that's just my doing. As for amount of boost I'm currently running 19-20psi. That Bullseye Power 50 trim is a hell of a price. Also, the Bullseye Power 56mm turbo is the same exact price. I do plan on meth injection eventually but not right now. I'd love DSMLink but 500$ would put my new turbo off for a decent amount of time. I know I CAN get my 16g to my goals but it would be almost as costly as to just buy a bigger turbo in the first place. Thanks for the advice guys -- Obviously my first DSM so I'm kinda new to which turbos make us run fastest. If anyone has anything more to add / needs more information from me about my setup, please post.

 

[JusMX141]

The Bullseye 50-trim will need a different oil drain and supply line, and you'll have to block off your coolant lines as well.

If want a true bolt-on turbo that uses all of your existing oil and coolant hardware, a 20G is the only way to go. Get in touch with me when you're ready....I have more than one of them freshly rebuilt and sitting on the shelf.

 

[Srt4RacerDave]

Honestly I could be ready now I guess. We can talk over PM about pricing. If you think I'll get a noticeable power gain from the 20g.

 

[SiNiST3R]

Sorry If it sounds like I'm messing up a deal. 16g to 20g IMO is a waste. Save I bet DSMlink alone will gain the improvements over a AFC hands down. You could out do a 20g with a 16g + Dsmlink vs AFC and 20G IMO

AFC pff your not really tuning yet open your eyes to DSMlink or another standalone.

 

[sickgsx-316]

I agree, I'll be going with a Holset when I've had enough fun with the Evo III 16g. Start reading up:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/145691-holset-turbos.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/192083-holset-turbos-part-2-a.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/274459-holset-turbos-part-3-a.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/303969-holset-turbos-part-4-a.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/314629-holset-turbos-part-5-a.html#post151666559

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/312186-holset-part-thread-only.html

x3 man. I've just about got my 3052 up and running after a few year build and wish the holset info was out there before I was so committed to the 3052. And seriously...think about injectors/tuning before you try and upgrade beyond a 16g. The time dsmlink would set you back on a turbo would be well worth it. If there is 1 thing I've learned while owning a DSM, its dont rush the big mods, and get all the supporting stuff out of the way before going big. Throwing big money at things like cams/turbos before fuel/tuning will only cost you more money in the long run.

 

[SiNiST3R]

Wait Wait wait..

Your on 550s? erm Upgrade Your injectors +a Real engine management(dsmlink) and not a piggy back. Your goals are a lot closer than you think don't rush into a turbo.

Bigger injectors
DSMlink

That's what I would be getting..

Also what HG do you have do you have ARPs? Start thinking about support support support or else that "big turbo" will give you a 5minute joyride into a new engine.

I could go on more and am sure a lot other DSMers could also and I know our budget just remember bigger is not always better. Get your basics done 1st.

 

[-TunedDSM-]

DSMlink would definitely be the wisest upgrade right now, you will need bigger injectors that the SAFC won't be able to control and you have so much control with DSMlink. V3 is right around the corner!

 

[Srt4RacerDave]

I already stated in the first sentence of my post that I KNOW I need larger injectors and a new management system. I wasn't going to run my new turbo at full blast and figured I could go for the turbo first. I'm guessing the "new" DSMLink will cost even more? Everyone I know runs mid 13's - high 12's with setups similar to mine, minus the cams maybe. I didn't figure I was as close to my goals as you guys say I am. I could probably afford the injectors and DSMLink really soon. Honest question here, besides being able to control more fuel, what other advantages does DSMLink offer? I know there are probably 5000 threads explaining it, but I was never too interested in it because I was never thinking of a bigger turbo untill recently.

 

[JusMX141]

DSMLink gives you the advantage of tuning everything to the ragged edge....something that can't be done with a AFC. Link is the closest thing to a full standalone system that still lets the stock ECU in control. Version 3 will be even better.

You're going to need injectors anyway....DSMLink allows you to buy injectors that are way too big for your current mods, allowing you to "grow" into them. The only downside of Link is that it requires an EPROM ECU to function.

Let's think about this logically:

- You can buy a bigger turbo (20G / HX35) for $500-$600 and run it on your current injectors. You'll probably max out a 20G around 18psi....less for a HX35. This will get you to the 12's if you're a good driver.
- You can buy bigger injectors (still tuneable with your AFC) and a bigger turbo (20G / HX35) and spend around $800. This will get you to the 12's for sure.
- You can buy bigger injectors and DSMLink, and spend around $800....but you'll have the ability to wring the 16G for all it's worth as well as support any turbo you'll buy from now until you sell the car. There are guys that have taken 16G's to the 11's on a good tune, so this will undoubtedly get you to the 12's.

It's all in what you want to do. It sounds like you're going to buy all of the parts eventually, we just have to figure out what order will be the best!

 

[Srt4RacerDave]

Jusmx141 you're correct. I am planning on buying it all eventually. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't all 1g have the EPROM ECU? I suppose you are correct in telling me that I will be happier in the long run if I buy new injectors and the DSMLink now. I was just power hungry for a bigger turbo. With the DSMLink I should be able to get higher track times with this turbo anyways. How hard is the installation on a DSLink? I'm adequate with mechanical and computer work, but heavy wiring is not my strong point.

 

[JusMX141]

Power-hungry isn't a bigger turbo....it's feeling what a few degrees of timing and a perfect tune will give you once you get DSMLink. It's not that you need a bigger turbo to gain airflow, but a better tuning device will give you the opportunity to make full use of the airflow your current turbo provides.

Not all 1G's had EPROM's- I've heard an estimation of somewhere around 5% had them. I feel it could even be less than that....although I somehow lucked out and BOTH of my 1G TSi's had EPROM ECU's. Neither one has a sunroof, either....which is also rare.

Installing DSMLink is as easy as installing the DSMLink chip in your EPROM socket (the chip's location on the board will need to be socketed) and plugging the laptop into your diagnostic port. That's it....no wiring needed- with the exception of the clutch switch for launch control. You can also set up DSMLink to log your wideband, which is amazing. You can see exactly how your Air/Fuel ratios correspond to fuel and timing adjustments on the screen.

 

[Srt4RacerDave]

I see. I'm not going to bother asking how to check, just going to search tomorrow morning when I go back to working on my car.

As for Sinister's comment earlier, you stated a 16g on DSMLink would out perform a 20g on my sAFC. Not sure if that's true or not because I've never actually seen what you can do with a DSMLink. I do know the sAFC has done everything I've needed so far though. When I need more fuel, I got it. When I need less, it's only a few clicks away. I never really needed more then that untill now apparently.