Is this normal DSM stuff?

[dsmRevival]

Lets start by saying I am new to the DSM scene. I had a talon in high school but sold it quick. My sister had a tsi, but wrecked it quick and that was the end of that. Little did I know that the tsi was sitting in a barn at my dad's place just needing the body to be fixed. I took that project on last week and completed it, now I have the car back on the road. There are a few issues that I cannot figure out, but it may be normal?

1) Is it normal to hear a "boiling" sound coming from the engine, maybe the coolant getting too hot. It does not overheat at all, but it sounds like it is boiling.

2) there is no "boost" feeling. I had a boosted CRX running 8psi and this feels nothing like a boosted car. It gets about 7psi, but gradually, the turbo doesn't spool very fast, but by the time I am at 6500-7000rpm it is at 7psi, but that's it.

3) Is 7psi stock boost for a 1990 tsi?

4) The idle is not consistent. It sometimes like to idle at 2000, sometimes 750-1000, and sometimes it doesn't catch itself and it dies. Also it takes a while for it to idle down. When you rev it the rpms come down really slow, like it has a 200lb flywheel!!

5) It kinda chokes at the point between decelerating with compression and then re applying gas, is that normal?

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. My wife is trying to get me to sell the car because of all the problems but I have a lot of fun with it and just want to see it run well. I don't want another DAMN civic!!!!!!!!!

 

[xxShaneOmac]

You bought a BEAT CAR.

We see 25PSI at 3.5k
Have more power then most people relize
Rock solid idle with 272+ Cam's

Im sorry that is your 1st dsm

 

[christ]

We see 25PSI at 3.5k
Have more power then most people relize
Rock solid idle with 272+ Cam's

What are you replying to?

Try flushing the radiator and making sure it flows. After the car warms up, you should see the coolant flowing in the line. If it isn't, you probably have a clog or your water pump is shot. Speaking of shot, your turbo probably is, also. Take off the intake and check it for shaft play and if it freely spins.

 

[pj91gsx]

The boiling means its getting to hot. Doesnt have to show it on the temp gauge.
1st thing to do:
boost leak test with soapy water
fix all of the boost leaks
set the ignition timing

If its still boiling hot

change the t-stat and the pressure cap, make sure the plugs to the fans, radiator, and thermostat are connected.
send us pictures, is it stock.

Christ +1 as well.

 

[dsmRevival]

ok, I'll do both right now. As for the boost, what is stock for the car? I used a tdo5h and stock waistgate in my crx and the boost was constantly at like 8psi. I thought the talon ran higher than that?

 

[dsmRevival]

yeah, it's stock. The fans kick on and I put new cap on it. I am running straight water right now because I was going to change the water pump this weekend and didnt want to waist coolant, maybe boiling point too low on straight water? It doesn't overflow and I don't loose coolant.

Something I forgot to post in the first posting, the other night when i got home, I popped the hood to listen to the boiling and noticed that my exhaust mani was RED hot. problem?

xxShaneOmac: the car wasn't beat, my sister bought it from the original owner, an old man, and she wasn't hard on it. Plus, I am really not out anything as it was free!! Can sitting for 7 years effect the rings? When I first started it, I pre-lubbed it with a thin oil, let that sit for 24 hours, then cranked it slow using an adjustable jump pack. It doesn't smoke at all. I let a buddy barrow my comp tester, so I can't do that untill tonight.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Around 9-10 PSI. Don't rely on the stock gauge though it's a P.O.S. What it's reading is the MAS signal and interpreting that into what PSI level you are running. IT'S NOT ACCURATE!!! I assume it's a 5-speed car? Or is it auto? If it's a manual you should see full boost at around 2500-3000 RPM on the stock 14b turbo. The 13g of the auto car I have no idea on where it gets its full boost but it should be in that same range. Anyway since you aren't seeing much til redline I would venture a guess that you've got a major boost leak "highly likely" or a wastegate problem "more likely". My guess is that the pin that holds the wastegate actuator arm onto the wastegate flapper arm is/has rusted away and is no longer there. Check for that. Therefore your wastegate is just flying open not even allowing air to go through the turbine to create boost until you get enough air in higher RPMs. Check those first!

 

[Stone'S GSX96]

Its not just because its water. Water cools better, the coolent just keeps it from frezzing and raise the boling point a little not much!

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

If you are running it hard yes it's common for the manifold to be RED hot when you stop. Make sure to let it idle till the manifold comes back to a normal color. You DO NOT want that oil to boil inside that turbo!! That will wear it out quicker than anything else. Since it's been sitting so long make sure to do normal maintenance on it. Like, timing belt, t-belt tensioner & idler pulleys, all other belts and fluids, fuel filter, spark plugs and wires. I would go as far as to bleed all the old brake fluid out of it and replace with new fresh fluid. Don't be cheap! Put a new O2 sensor in there!! Also you said it's been sitting for 7 years!!!??? Did you drain the gas out of the tank? What could be happening is that you are running on old fuel causing it to knock in which the ECU is pulling boost back along with the timing. That will make the manifold RED hot as well!!!

 

[3tcpower]

With it sitting so long, have you done all the maintenance related stuff? IC hoses, wires, plugs, etc?

 

[dylnwit]

I have to agree with ->PrOjEcTGS<-, if the gas is old, it definitely will not help you, psi at the manifold should be in the 6 to 10.8 psi range in second gear at 3500rpm or more (or at least that's what the big shop service manual says that came with my car). I personally have my turbo set to run about 12psi, and turn it up when needed, and have never had my exhaust manifold turn red hot, but mine is still rather stock (don't worry, i plan to fix that) and not driven very hard. I know the normal maintenance list that ->PrOjEcTGS<- gave is long, but it's worth it all in the money you'll save from driving it like it is right now. Also, if it's a manual, I'd recommend checking your master and slave cylinder. My '90 TSi had also been parked for a few years before i got it, and it's slave cylinder gave out about a week ago. For the $15 bucks for the new seal kit, it's defiantly worth it to rebuild it now and avoid the $120+ tow bill and rebuild later.

 

[mike214125]

not trying to steal this thread but in my 95 awd when i am not moving and in first gear getting ready to launch (car is bone stock) the stock (pos) boost gauge will not move it sits on the - (neg) side now when i am moving say 3rd gear or 4 gear and accelerating it goes up to the + positive side no problem .. is that normal?

 

[dylnwit]

yes, but it's mostly that gauge, as it's been said before, that gauge is inaccurate, and mostly just there to make you feel warm and fuzzy inside, and doesn't bother registering when your not using the throttle. My understanding of how turbos work is no load=no pressure. An aftermarket gauge should read 0 at idle and while reving it.

 

[DougR]

4) The idle is not consistent. It sometimes like to idle at 2000, sometimes 750-1000, and sometimes it doesn't catch itself and it dies. Also it takes a while for it to idle down. When you rev it the rpms come down really slow, like it has a 200lb flywheel!!

5) It kinda chokes at the point between decelerating with compression and then re applying gas, is that normal?

4: Idle Stepper controller DSM ISC
5: Same as #4

 

[Epic904]

The boost gauge should only read 0 when reving the motor and when idle it should be anywere from 17 - 22 in/hg. With the coolant issue check to make sure the overflow cap seal is still good. You should definitely check for a band boost leak purchase an aftermarket boost guage. Also do all the maintenance you can do like the timing belt, balance shaft belt, tensioner, all the hoses including the vacuum lines since its been sitting and it old, change all the fluids and go from there.

 

[dsmnightracer]

if the car is running hot,/ if it had been sitting alot i would change the t-sat and the coolant with new. the boosting problem perform boost leak test, check all vuc. lines. maybe think about changing the iac.

 

[pj91gsx]

maybe think about changing the iac.

I wouldn't jump to conclusions. we need to keep it simple. All this info at once will mess with his head. IAC with throw a CEL.

Now, if the motor runs lean it will be really hot. The gas cools the motor, so not enough of it and it will be hot. My friends exhaust melted his fans when it had boost leaks and ran lean.

Boost leaks will cause the motor to run lean and hot, I would do a boost leak test 1st, then set the ignition timing. Those are 90 % of the time my problems.

 

[dsmRevival]

ok, I will try that. I did check for flow in the cooling system and there was air, so I got that out and topped it off. We'll see if that helps the "boiling". When I was doing that, I found what I thought was a downpipe gasket leak to be cracks in both the turbine housing and the exhaust manifold. Huh, cause of slow spooling? I am going to find some new parts, hopefully by the weekend, and see if that helps. Also, as far as the maintenance sugestion, yeah, I am doing that stuff. This weekend will be the timing belt and water pump. I already had the tranny/t-case/diff serviced, motor oil and filter, new power steering fluid, didnt do the breaks, but I guess I could, they feel ok. Coolant system flush after the water pump, and I didn't have any gas in it to drain, so I put a full tank of fresh fuel and SeaFoam additive to get the moisture out of the tank and help clean injecters. Anyone have parts for sale in Washington?

 

[pj91gsx]

The cracked manifold will cause slower spool but not slow enough for you to notice. You have boost leaks, make a boost leak tester, use soapy water and get to testing. They are everywhere, I found 9 on a stock talon. Get to work, its most always a problem with these car.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Boost leaks will cause the motor to run lean and hot, I would do a boost leak test 1st, then set the ignition timing. Those are 90 % of the time my problems.

Boost leaks make the engine run rich. Due to the fact that with the stock MAS you are metering the air before the turbo. Therefore, every ounce of air you lose past that point will make the engine run rich since the ECU doesn't know it's gone. But the EGTs will be high due to the fact that the turbo is working harder to produce the same amount of boost.

 

[dsmRevival]

well I am going to switch to hard charge pipe anyhow, so I will drive nice until those come. I was talking to someone about the mani heating up really bad and his volvo is turbo charged. He had the same problem and brought it to volvo and they said the timing was way off and they timed it and that fixed his problem. My symptoms are the same as his were and the timing fixed it. I will try that in the morning, hopefully that will do something.

Also, I did a compression test and all 4 tested between 128-132psi...... I'm an old honda head, so to me that sounds low, but I don't know on a factory turbo. What''s a good compression number on these things?

 

[pj91gsx]

Boost leaks make the engine run rich. Due to the fact that with the stock MAS you are metering the air before the turbo. Therefore, every ounce of air you lose past that point will make the engine run rich since the ECU doesn't know it's gone. But the EGTs will be high due to the fact that the turbo is working harder to produce the same amount of boost.

thanks for the correction, I was just thinking from when my friends car melted the radiator fans because it was getting hot because it ran bad. The reason for his must have been the igntion timing being very off in addition to 9 boost leaks.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

Lets start by saying I am new to the DSM scene. I had a talon in high school but sold it quick. My sister had a tsi, but wrecked it quick and that was the end of that. Little did I know that the tsi was sitting in a barn at my dad's place just needing the body to be fixed. I took that project on last week and completed it, now I have the car back on the road. There are a few issues that I cannot figure out, but it may be normal?

1) Is it normal to hear a "boiling" sound coming from the engine, maybe the coolant getting too hot. It does not overheat at all, but it sounds like it is boiling. blown head gasket

2) there is no "boost" feeling. I had a boosted CRX running 8psi and this feels nothing like a boosted car. It gets about 7psi, but gradually, the turbo doesn't spool very fast, but by the time I am at 6500-7000rpm it is at 7psi, but that's it. turbine housing is cracked, or the waste gate needs shimmed

3) Is 7psi stock boost for a 1990 tsi?NO

4) The idle is not consistent. It sometimes like to idle at 2000, sometimes 750-1000, and sometimes it doesn't catch itself and it dies. Also it takes a while for it to idle down. When you rev it the rpms come down really slow, like it has a 200lb flywheel!!bad ISC, or your BISS is MIA or you have a boost leak

5) It kinda chokes at the point between decelerating with compression and then re applying gas, is that normal? no idea what your talking about

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. My wife is trying to get me to sell the car because of all the problems but I have a lot of fun with it and just want to see it run well. I don't want another DAMN civic!!!!!!!!!

Just sell it and by a horse.. and the like the previous owner did to your car!

 

[dsmRevival]

the car wasn't beat on, my sister bought it from the original owner who was an old guy, it has just sat for a long time. Also, there are a lot of other symptoms with a blown head gasket that are not present. My first talon had a bad water pump and it over heated and cracked the head. I bought a brand new head and replaced it, installing a new head gasket, and it also did this with the cooling system. I didn't know what it was from, but I had installed a new head gasket, so it wasn't a blown head gasket. Is there nothing else it could be? What about those compression numbers, is that low? 130psi?

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

In regards to the compression:

Yes that is a little low. The service limit is 121 (somebody with a manual please back me up on that.) Which means you do have a little bit farther to go before the engine really needs a rebuild. As long as they were within roughly 10% of each other then you really shouldn't have a problem. I try to aim around the 150-160 range. While 2g guys with higher compression pistons aim for 170-180 range.

Couple questions.
1. Did you do this test with the engine warm or cold? Cold you will get lower numbers...
2. Did you open the throttle plate to WOT when cranking to allow as much air as possible to enter the cylinders? Less air = less compression...

How many miles are we working with on this thing? I'm kind of picking up that the old guy didn't drive it much?? Neither did your sister since she wrecked it shortly after owning it??

I'm expecting it to be just under or just over 100k?