Need lots of advice.

[mouzzer]

Hello everyone,

I just purchased a 1998 Eclipse GS-T. I test drove the car about a week and a half ago and went back and picked it up last Tuesday. The car drove fine on the test drive and after I actually purchased it has gone down hill fast. Let me go over all the issues. I would really like some feedback..


PROBLEM AT HAND

First. The engine is making a loud ticking noise. At first I thought it was a broken piston arm but a few people ( who have more knowledge than I ) said it was probably bad lifters. I did a compression check and everything came of fairly even. So I am leaning more towards it being lifter tick. Along with the ticking noise the engines performance is extremely poor. The car has absolutely no power. It is burning oil because every now and then it will poor white smoke out the exhaust. Sometimes though it runs just fine. I changed the oil and added in some Lucas and the ticking stopped until earlier today. It ran good for about 150 miles. Also I just installed a short shifter which functioned just fine. Then today on my ride home from work when ever I try to shift into third it feels like the gear locks in and as soon as I come off the clutch it makes a grinding noise and kicks the stick out of gear. Also I reset the trip meter and now it nor the odometer is reading mileage. The car also has a very slight oil leak which seems to becoming from around the turbo. Also when the car goes from relatively high RPMs ( 3-5k ) and i put it in neutral it idles down so low that it cuts off..


WHAT I'VE DONE
Today I took it by a local shop who deals with DSMs and other performance cars. We did some checking and this is what I know. The BOV ( which is a POS OEM 2g ) is no longer functioning properly. It is actually sucking in air. After we disconnect the BOV hose that runs to the turbo we wanted to check and see if the turbo was functioning. That all appeared fine. But after high RPMs there was a little white smoking coming from the piping leading to the turbo. I am looking into getting a new BOV and possibly a rebuild kit for my turbo. That was the recommendation of the mechanic. They told me the reason the car is cutting off is because the BOV is sucking in air instead of blowing it out and that is messing with the mass air flow sensor.


I think that is mostly the symptoms I just really need to diagnose the problem. I am new to DSMs and forced induction vehicles all together. And help would be greatly appreciated. I left some info about the vehicle below in case it is necessary.

YEAR : 1998
MODEL : Eclipse GS-T
MILEAGE : 78,000
TURBO : 16G
OIL : 5-20 Synthetic
ENGINE MODS : None


If there is any information I left out that may help anyone please ask. Like I said. I'm a scrub. Thanks in advance



P.S - I AM UNABLE TO RETURN THE VEHICLE as I am sure someone will suggest.

 

[halffast1g]

what were the compression numbers?

 

[webconnect]

A bov opens at vacuum, so you need a tube going from the bov to your intake pipe. Also if your turbo is leaking oil and your car is smoking white smoke, your turbo is shot. You will need a new one. To check for another sign of a blown turbo, take the intake pipe off, and reach for the blades of the turbo. Try to move them side to side and in an out. If it does this excessively, it is blown. (Even if it doesn't though it still might be blown.)

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Sounds like we have a lot of problems just dumped onto you? What the hell happened? The white smoke could be the turbo. Check for shaft play. That would explain burning oil. No power is cuased by that POS BOV that you have. Fix those for now. Also do a compression test, leakdown test, and boost leak test.

James

 

[kahl23]

Hmmm, that's a laundry list of problems. The sound is most likely lifter tick, especially considering that it went away when you added the Lucas stuff. Are you sure that smoke is white and not tinged with blue? Oil burns blue, water smokes white (after all, it is just steam). Look again and make sure that it doesn't have some blue to it (and make sure it smells like burning oil, not just exhaust fumes). The reason why I'm worried is because water can only come from a couple of places, the most likely being a busted head gasket However, the compression test would refute that, how confident are you in your compression test and what were the numbers? Chuck the short shifter. It's worthless and will only add to your shifting troubles. I had a B&M shifter and got rid of it. I'm much happier. Search around for the popping out of 3rd gear issue. I know I've read about it before, either here or on VFAQ. I just can't remember what the problem and solution are.

 

[91tizzy]

compression numbers would really let us help you diagnose the problems further

answers on shaft play would be just as beneficial as the compression numbers...

as far as the short shifter goes....all thats doing is giving the already shady synchros not enough time to function and perform the shift properly...as stated above all that will do is cause more issues....install the stock shifter and replace the bushings and possibly change the tranny fluid and that problem should be close to eliminated

Greg

 

[mouzzer]

Wow thanks. I am going to take a look at the turbine tomorrow and look for any play. I will check on Vfaq but are there any places that outline how to check the turbo?

The compression test was done by the guy who sold me the car. I watched it. He disconnected two electrical plugs on the engine, removed the spark plugs and screwed in his gauge. he then turned the key and it clicked about 4 times and they all read around 150-165. Though he didn't hold the key over as long sometimes. I will do another one tomorrow and get exact readings for each cylinder giving them each equal time. It does smell like oil and I am quite certain its white. I'll check in the day light tomorrow for any traces of blue.

I know it is a lot of things gone wrong. I did nothing that I know of to cause this. I got the car up to about 110 was the most strain i've put on it. I wasn't redlining when I did it either so I am not exactly sure.


__________

Over all :

The compression test averaged about 155 for each cylinder ( I will get exact numbers for each cylinder tomorrow ). The smoke appears to be white and does have a burning oil odor. I am going to purchase a new BOV ASAP. ( any recommendation on decent yet cheap, oxymoron I know, BOV's that include the flange and other necessary equipment? )


__________

Other Questions :

Where can I find information on how to perform a leak down test and a boost leak test. Also could you give me more information on running a line from my BOV to my intake pipe.



Thanks again.

 

[91tizzy]

Ok well if the compression test was done on a cold motor those arent the greatest numbers in the world being that it is a 2g your dealing with but if they are all relatively even and within about 5-10 psi difference then you should be ok for a while...If it was warm when the test was performed those arent bad at all imho....My advise to you would be to search the classifieds (which are on the top bar running across the screen your looking at now) and use the search feature and find you a used 1g bov. You should be able to find one for a good price. All you have to do for the turbine shaft play is pull the intake pipe off of the turbo and reach your hand in there and grab the center nut on the turbine shaft and try to move it in/out and up/down if it moves at all odds are the turbo is what is causing all the smoking issues. Since itsmost likely the stock t-25 you will be wanting to replace this anyway. Then after that I would perform a boostleak test. You can make a tester yourself with some things from home depot or you can order one. If you do choose to go homemade (alot of dsmers do) all you would need is a pvc end cap which you can find in the plumbing section (2.5 inch is what I used I think) and two hose clamps with a rubber coupler. Then just get a standard shrader valve tire stem at a local wally world(where I got mine) drill a hole big enough in the top of the cap to fit the valve stem into but small enough that it will hold a descent amount of pressure...then just attach this little setup to the inlet of the turbo (where the intake pipe normally meets the turbo) and fill it with air using an air compressor. Not too much all your doing is checking for air escaping from all you intercooler lines or other places that see induction pressures...sparyin soapy water around where they meet can aid in locating any leaks....then go form there...wow that was alot of typing there are vfaqs on this as well vfaq.com
Good luck

Greg

 

[mouzzer]

Appreciate it bro, The compression check was done on a warm engine. I am going to take a look at the turbine tomorrow and then have my friends over at the local shop to some pressure tests on the turbo system. Also it is not a T-25 turbo according to the seller. he told me it was upgraded to a 16G. Is there a way I can confirm this? Also what turbo's can I replace it with that will require no engine modification or custom fabricating? Thanks again everyone.

 

[91tizzy]

Ah come on dont pay a shop to do something that you can do yourself for less than ten bucks! And besides if you ever have to do one again (odds are you will) the initial investment of the homemade tester will pay for itself rather than payin a shop to repeat the simple process...In regards to the turbo you can get either a 14b from a 1g fivespeed or replace it with another 16g which might be the better option if it had supporting mods performed as well...Do you have any more info on the car that we dont know about? What all has been done to it?

 

[rossb]

Also it is not a T-25 turbo according to the seller. he told me it was upgraded to a 16G. Is there a way I can confirm this?

Check the numbers on the compressor housing and see if it says tdo5h if so it could be a 14b or a 16g(if not its a t-25). To tell the difference between the 14b and 16g look at the compressor blades. If they are doubled up its a 16g of some sort, if not it's a 14b. If it is the T-25 you're pretty much stuck with getting another t-25 unless you by a conversion kit from one of our awesome vendors.

p.s. check for shaft play while you're there.

 

[whitehawk]

For turbo's you can get a 16G small, big an the EVO III ones, an a 18G, then a 20G among others like a 5031. So do some looking before you get something. Also dont start to small you'll get power crazy an want more when you feel the power. Becareful when taking off your turbo becuse its heavy even tho it doesnt look it.

for bov you might want to look into getting a 1G bov there really cheap from friends an junk yards. There way better than the 2G one becuase they can hold 18lbs of boost with out leaking. You might have to change your pipe its on tho. I really cant remember becuase it was so long ago since I did it.

For the white smoke its from the turbo mine did that when I kinked the oil line an blew oil out the seal an threw my engine.

As for the trans mine had that problem with 3rd gear. I changed the clutch to a preformance one an the problem went away. Also it might be the shifter cables you got 2 you can check which is easy to do. All it takes is 2 people one looking at the trans where they hook up an the other moving the shifter.

For the turbo info what is on written on the compressor housing? or do you have pics of it?

 

[Rob10_99]

The T25 will have a gooseneck on the compressor housing.
The 16g, and 14b, 13g will have two bolts where the same kind of neck goes, they aren't exact but similar.


This page has some helpful pics,
turbos and assessories


EVO16G

 

[mouzzer]

I'll snap some photo's of it tomorrow. What exactly is the compressor housing on a turbine? Again I am new to the world of forced induction. Also the only reason im willing to let the shop do it is because they are friends and it will probably be free


WHAT I'M GONNA DO

Ok well here is what I plan on doing tomorrow after all the information I've gathered let me know if I'm missing anything.

Tomorrow I am going to remove the intake pipe and feel inside the turbine for any play. in or out and left to right. I will call around to some local junk yards and try to locate an 1g blow off valve. What year/vehicles should I ask for when searching for this type of BOV? I will also get some pictures of the turbo assuming I cant identify it myself and post them up for you all and from there I'll try to figure out the most cost effective route for replacing it. If the car doesn't actually have a 16G I am going to flip shit on the "Dealer" I purchased it from. I am also going to re-install the stock shifter to see if that makes a difference with my 3rd gear issue.


MODS TO THE CAR

As far as any other after market modifications to the car their aren't many that I know of. Below is a brief list of what I know.

Cat Back Greddy Exhaust System
Some type of suspension system ( the car has been lowered 2 maybe 3 inchs? )
16G Turbo

I am pretty sure there are one or two other modifications none of which are associated with the engine or turbo system. I am going to install a new intercooler tomorrow as well but I am pretty sure thats it. I'll try to dig up anything else on it. I will take some pictures of the vehicle and detailed engine shots tomorrow so everyone can get a better idea of whats going on. God knows I dont.

 

[whitehawk]

Its the compressor housing. Thats the one connected to the intake pipe. Take your time. You want to solve your problems first before adding stuff. Unless you got an endless amount of money to spend, .

 

[91tizzy]

Sounds like a plan to me keep us updated

.... and as far as replacing the turbo is conscerned I would advise you to not get anything besides either a small/big 16g or 14b due to the fact that there arent any other SUPPORTING MODS (injectors,pump,rewire,wideband,logger etc) so stay away from the bigger td05 turbo's for now till the problems get ironed out but we will cross that bridge when we get to it....btw welcome to the site

 

[whitehawk]

You can get a big 16g an run it at 12lbs of boost with out mods. The EVO III 16g that one will require an EVO III O2 housing an EVO III downpipe.

 

[TOONAH]

Scuse me for throwing in my two cents worth, but if you lost the oil pressure to the head
the lifters will not pump up properly, hence the valves will not operate correctly. This will cause poor performance and oil smoke in the exhaust. You said that you added some Lucas Lifter cleaner and it helped. Just a thought. I'd check that my oil pressure was not dropping off. The guys are right about the Turbo BOV too of course.

 

[98GSXtreme07]

If your car has a 16g it will look similar if not identical to this:
*Note this is a 14b on a 2g* *Also notice the J-Pipe under the Upper-radiator hose. A 16g will have one of these*


<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/6769/1001180mp0.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a>

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/5170/1001141vx5.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a>

*Note rusty J-Pipe*
<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5333/1001142sa7.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a>


If you have the stock turbo it will look like this. Yours may or may not have the heat-sheilds on them.

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7158/1000782ot0.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a>

*Notice no J-Pipe*

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/5893/1000783mx8.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a>


This is what you want to grap and see if it moves side-to-side and back-and-forth, aka check for shaft play:

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4070/1001192us1.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a>

I hope this helps you for tomorrow.

 

[91tizzy]

For turbo's you can get a 16G small, big an the EVO III ones, an a 18G, then a 20G among others like a 5031. So do some looking before you get something. Also dont start to small you'll get power crazy an want more when you feel the power.

16g should not be a problem as I stated...but this is not such good advice^ being that the car is having issues already he doesnt need to be getting "power crazy" just yet Baby steps then supporting mods, more baby steps then more supporting mods...

 

[kewlguy]

typically both times i've seen a turbo shot the majority of the smoke comes out after you release the gas. so both times on both cars i just went and ebayed my a $300 t4 turbo and got a new manifold

the lastest one being:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/hangout/295126-new-t4-manifold-jhracing.html

if it's a bigger cloud when you press the gas, insted of releasing it, chances are that you have a bad seal, or gasket.

if your turbo is shot, i HIGHLY recommend you discontinue driving it until you swap out turbos. the last thing you need is getting a piece of broken off metal from your turbo flying into your head.

as far as lifter tick, you can take a metal rod and put one end on the head cover over each of the lifters. and listen to the other end. when you hear something different than normal you can get an idea of which lifter it is. if they all sound the same it's probably something else.


for the BOV just ask for a 90-94 turbo eclipse, talon or laser blow off valve.


me personally i wouldnt install anything new until you've found the cause of the oil burning. I've already had to clean oil out of 1 intercooler. i'm not doing that again if i can avoid it.


I miss ATL

edit: oh yeah i forgot. it's possible the smoke is white because that turbo should be water cooled. if you got a crack or leak in there, then that will cause the steam.


edit again:

Check the numbers on the compressor housing and see if it says tdo5h if so it could be a 14b or a 16g(if not its a t-25). To tell the difference between the 14b and 16g look at the compressor blades. If they are doubled up its a 16g of some sort, if not it's a 14b. If it is the T-25 you're pretty much stuck with getting another t-25 unless you by a conversion kit from one of our awesome vendors.

p.s. check for shaft play while you're there.

if this is true, then does this mean my stock 1995 GS-T had a small 16G? cause that's exactically what it looked like. I thought it was a T-25.

 

[mouzzer]

Ok. So I removed the intake pipe and grabbed the bolt in the turbo. IT has play in all directions. Seems pretty loose to me though I have never felt what it should be like. So now I am on the hunt for a new turbine, preferably another 16G if anyone has any suggestion I'm all ears.


Below are some pics of the Turbo and the Engine. In the last picture can anyone tell me what that gold thing with the screw in it is. Its on my intake manifold.

 

[98GSXtreme07]

Looks like you have a 6-bolt too.



Edit: I could be wrong.

 

[mouzzer]

How could I confirm this? Count the bolts on the flywheel correct? Any easier way? And what are the advantages?

 

[mouzzer]

Any more suggestions out there?