Boost Help!

[TOMMYSDSM]

okay so i got my car and it has a bullseye power 57 trim turbo with a tial 38mm setup and dump pipe but i have no internals inside my car and have been running off the stock boost setting
I was just wondering now that i have a electronic boost controller how much boost can my car handle since its got the stock insides??

 

[thatblondechik]

Well first off, I would reconsider the EBC. EBC's have been known by some (myself included) to cause a lot of problems.
But I would stick with around 12-14lbs but no more than that on a stock HG and rods, and that's assuming you have the proper supporting mods ie. injectors, fuel pump, AFPR, etc.

 

[TOMMYSDSM]

ebc??
i have injectors fuel pump and and all the stuff to support it before on my old turbo i ran 18lbs but im not sure it was that like safe or not i just dont want it to blow but i want the power i used to have! and with this new turbo it feels like im not getting as much pull and my old turbo was about the same size as my 57 trim

 

[thatblondechik]

EBC=Electronic Boost Controler

18lbs is NOT something I would recommend on a stock HG. I mean, the occasional full boost to 18lbs isn't going to hurt anything but I would recommend taking it down at least 2lbs or so.

Different turbos require different tuning. Though they may look the same, every turbo pushes a a different amount of air. So obviously if you're tuned for 18lbs on a small 16g and you decide to upgrade to an 18g without tuning, you will run lean on that same 18lbs of boost.

Just get a logger, hook her up, and spend a day running up and down a long stretch of road.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Look at the mods in my profile. My turbo only flows slightly less than yours. I run 28psi on pump and race gas. Your rods are weaker than mine but you can still run a good amount of boost as long as it is tuned correctly and you have the supporting mods.

 

[thatblondechik]

You <b>CAN</b> do anything you want. But if you're wanting to retain reliability and still have some "Oomph" on stock internals, running anywhere close to 28lbs is suicide.

I know I can't afford to rebuild an engine just cause I <b>COULD</b> boost it up to 23lbs on a stock bottom end.

 

[TOMMYSDSM]

yeah ebc clicked in my head right after is posted that last one
but yeah i get exectly what your saying ill probly keep it around 16lbs
but if i get it tuned right would the 18lbs be safe still?

 

[1992awdlaser]

You <b>CAN</b> do anything you want. But if you're wanting to retain reliability and still have some "Oomph" on stock internals, running anywhere close to 28lbs is suicide.

I know I can't afford to rebuild an engine just cause I <b>COULD</b> boost it up to 23lbs on a stock bottom end.

It doesn't sound like you have too much experience with these cars. I safely run 28psi and have been for a while. You just need the right supporting mods, a good tune, and enough knowledge to know what is going on. I know quite a few people that run high 20's psi on stock internal motors with no problems. 23psi is nothing for these engines if you know what you are doing.

 

[LocknessMonster]

If you have the supporting fuel mods than its up to you how you wanna tune it. Like thatblondechik said ebc are not your friend, ive got a halman pro mbc and it works great.

 

[fatherbubble]

When I started I tried to run my evo3 16g with stock fuel pump an injectors at 18lbs. well needless to say if messed up an i got a spike to 24 an by the time i got home the headgasket held but I was knocking like hell with a couple bent valves. Also latter when I sent the car off to get the new engine they told me. My crank got up an walked away, ....

 

[thatblondechik]

It doesn't sound like you have too much experience with these cars. I safely run 28psi and have been for a while. You just need the right supporting mods, a good tune, and enough knowledge to know what is going on. I know quite a few people that run high 20's psi on stock internal motors with no problems. 23psi is nothing for these engines if you know what you are doing.

Well it also sounds like you think that just because YOU haven't had problems <b>yet</b>, no other engine will.
I have had plenty of experience with these cars. Running 20psi on a stock 10-15 year old headgasket just is not a good idea if you don't have the funds. Tuning has nothing to do with it when you're talking about the amount of pressure that can be safely pushed into that engine without blowing out the HG.

I'm glad that you can afford to take the risk. But for those of us who can't...28psi is just retarded.

And please, just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion does not automatically make them a newb...be a little nicer. This isn't my first DSM...this isn't the first time I've worked on cars.

 

[KDub]

Well it also sounds like you think that just because YOU haven't had problems <b>yet</b>, no other engine will.
I have had plenty of experience with these cars. Running 20psi on a stock 10-15 year old headgasket just is not a good idea if you don't have the funds. Tuning has nothing to do with it when you're talking about the amount of pressure that can be safely pushed into that engine without blowing out the HG.

I'm glad that you can afford to take the risk. But for those of us who can't...28psi is just retarded.

And please, just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion does not automatically make them a newb...be a little nicer. This isn't my first DSM...this isn't the first time I've worked on cars.

He's not telling him to run 28psi, he's telling him these motors are capable of running 28psi with stock internals safely with a good tune. Ive ran 26psi on 91 for a year now obviously with the right mods and thats in the AZ heat. But yes, the OP running 28psi would be stupid.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Well it also sounds like you think that just because YOU haven't had problems <b>yet</b>, no other engine will.
I have had plenty of experience with these cars. Running 20psi on a stock 10-15 year old headgasket just is not a good idea if you don't have the funds. Tuning has nothing to do with it when you're talking about the amount of pressure that can be safely pushed into that engine without blowing out the HG.

I'm glad that you can afford to take the risk. But for those of us who can't...28psi is just retarded.

And please, just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion does not automatically make them a newb...be a little nicer. This isn't my first DSM...this isn't the first time I've worked on cars.

Like I said I know tons of people doing the same thing as me. Also, if you look in my profile you will see I have arp headstuds. When somebody does headstuds it is smart to replace the headgasket since it is already apart, so I replaced it with a new Mitsubishi composite headgasket. I have not had a problem with this gasket. The good thing about the composite gasket is if something goes wrong and the engine knocks the gasket will likely blow before the engine.

I don't automatically think somebody is a newb because they don't agree with me. You said "I know I can't afford to rebuild an engine just cause I COULD boost it up to 23lbs on a stock bottom end." That made me think that you don't have a lot of experience with these cars.

All you have to do to prove me wrong is, show me where one of these engines broke with stock internals, my turbo or the original posters turbo, the right supporting mods, a good tune, and lets say 25psi since it is between the psi we menioned. If you can do that I will be sure to aknowledge that you are right and I am wrong.

Do you want me to have other members chime in that are doing the same thing I am doing?

 

[thatblondechik]

He's not telling him to run 28psi, he's telling him these motors are capable of running 28psi with stock internals safely with a good tune. Ive ran 26psi on 91 for a year now obviously with the right mods and thats in the AZ heat. But yes, the OP running 28psi would be stupid.

I have no idea why anyone would think that 20-28psi on stock internals would be an OK idea, but to each his own ya know?

Just speaking from experience, I was watching the build of 91 TSi AWD. He boosted it to just 22lbs and blew that HG to the moon in two days.

I have only <b>heard</b> horror stories about weak stock rods, but really now...do you want to risk having to rebuild your engine just because someone else was able to?

Just play it safe. Keep the boost low, and save your money up for a rebuild and cometic HG...then you can boost 30psi all day long and not break a sweat.

 

[crimsondragon]

7 bolts have ran 25 psi safely on stock internals with no ARP headstuds and have not blown a headgasket but I would say that's pretty much the limit.

 

[TOMMYSDSM]

well i figured i could run all the bost but i want my car to last me some you know what im saying and i dont have a stock head gasket i have a super think one my head gasket blew like a month ago and i changed it with a better 1 it was the most exspensive one i could get!!!
im not really looking for 25lbs of boost and then my car getting all jacked up in another month
im just trying to get as much boost but doing it safely
so is 20+lbs safe on the stock internals or not?

 

[livedsm4g63]

Its a dsm. you should know it is ok.

 

[thatblondechik]

Like I said I know tons of people doing the same thing as me. Also, if you look in my profile you will see I have arp headstuds. When somebody does headstuds it is smart to replace the headgasket since it is already apart, so I replaced it with a new Mitsubishi composite headgasket. I have not had a problem with this gasket. The good thing about the composite gasket is if something goes wrong and the engine knocks the gasket will likely blow before the engine.

I don't automatically think somebody is a newb because they don't agree with me. You said "I know I can't afford to rebuild an engine just cause I COULD boost it up to 23lbs on a stock bottom end." That made me think that you don't have a lot of experience with these cars.

All you have to do to prove me wrong is, show me where one of these engines broke with stock internals, my turbo or the original posters turbo, the right supporting mods, a good tune, and lets say 25psi since it is between the psi we menioned. If you can do that I will be sure to aknowledge that you are right and I am wrong.

Do you want me to have other members chime in that are doing the same thing I am doing?

You're completely missing the point. Just because something CAN be done, does not mean that is SHOULD be done in all cases.

If 1g rods can handle 25psi, awesome. You go ahead and trust those 15 year old pieces of metal that have been beat on long and hard for 100k+ miles.

I'm not about to get into a debate over something this trivial.

Bottom line: It's up to you, TOMMYSDSM if you want to trust those rods and stock HG. I wouldn't trust them past 20psi. But 1992awdlaser here seems to know for certain that almost 30 pounds of pressure on a 15 year old car is an ok thing to do.

 

[thatblondechik]

The only thing keeping you from running 20+ psi is the hg and headstuds. I think 18psi is safe on a completely stock motor.

+1 As long as supporting fuel mods are involved and you're not always running around WOT.

 

[1992awdlaser]

well i figured i could run all the bost but i want my car to last me some you know what im saying and i dont have a stock head gasket i have a super think one my head gasket blew like a month ago and i changed it with a better 1 it was the most exspensive one i could get!!!
im not really looking for 25lbs of boost and then my car getting all jacked up in another month
im just trying to get as much boost but doing it safely
so is 20+lbs safe on the stock internals or not?

As I have been saying, with that amount of boost these engines won't even break a sweat.

PS..Everybody's cars that I speak of have been running for a lot longer than a month.

 

[TOMMYSDSM]

Yeah im not planing on running anything over 20 is its not safe but and didnt want to run that much if its not SAFE
and i DON'T have a STOCK hg

 

[thatblondechik]

Yeah im not planing on running anything over 20 is its not safe but and didnt want to run that much if its not SAFE
and i DON'T have a STOCK hg

Like I said, 20lbs shouldn't be a big deal, especially if you've done your HG (which I see you have). Hell, you probably could do 23lbs on that HG just so long as you're not at full boost all the time. The rods are what I would be worried about at higher boost levels.

But I'll bow out at this point, I've given my opinion and we don't need an endless argument.

 

[Yngvar]

I'm running 20 lbs on all stock motor with no problems.

 

[JusMX141]

Its a dsm. you should know it is ok.

This should read: "It's a DSM- ANYTHING's possible."

Whatever maximum boost level you choose to run can be safe on one car and catastrophic on another....even if they're the same year and have similar specs.

Take for example the reliability of a 7-bolt:
My good buddy has 137k on the stock 7-bolt in his '95 TSi AWD that is fully modded with bolt-on goodies. The car has seen no less than 18psi for the last 30k miles, and it still makes passes week after week down the 1320. The owner normally runs around 22psi with a Frank 5 20G and is tuned perfectly.

Now I know for a fact ThatBlondeChik's first DSM was a totally stock, unmodded '98 AUTO GST....it walked. Had she tried to boost that car with bolt-ons it would've grenaded instantly.

My point? What works for one guy WILL NOT work for another. Just because 1992awdlaser knows tons of guys running insane boost on their stock 4G63 doesn't mean YOU can. The guys who are doing it are taking a huge risk, and I'm sure they're well aware of the enevitable consequences.


If you walked past a guy at the strip with his hood up and you noticed that he was running a GT42R with the stock sidemount intercooler, would you grab him and say "What the HELL are you doing?" or just keep walking and think to yourself "Wow, I'll bet that beast gets heatsoaked at idle."

 

[webconnect]

Well first off, I would reconsider the EBC. EBC's have been known by some (myself included) to cause a lot of problems.
But I would stick with around 12-14lbs but no more than that on a stock HG and rods, and that's assuming you have the proper supporting mods ie. injectors, fuel pump, AFPR, etc.

These cars aren't freaking Honduhs. You can run 21lbs on stock rods, and stock HG. If you blow something at 18lbs using proper fuel, sorry babe but you can't tune.

And yes, 21lbs is on the upper side of the spectrum, but just make sure your car is in proper working order before you crank up the boost. But then again, if you don't do maintenance your car could blow at any boost level.