Video of how to test a wastegate actuator and wastegate functionality

[thewraith]

Well,

Since I still can't post in the tech forum, I will post it here. I'm doing the ebay turbo install and trying to test the theory that if properly installed and checked the ebay turbos can be as reliable as MHI's. Either way one CONSTANT ISSUE with the ebay turbo's is the wastegates will not open until properly adjusted. This video shows you how to test whether your wastegate is functioning properly and gives you a quick recap of how to adjust and where to adjust if not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b1KfSZayRg

 

[pitbull419]

Good idea for a video.
Let us know how the turbo works on the car.

 

[Stapl3]

If the wastegate doesn't move initially, you'll overboost once and know there's an issue. Overboosting once doesn't affect the longevity of the unit. You can inspect these units all you want prior to running them, but predicting if/when they'll bomb out is nearly impossible.

For an extra hundred bucks you could have had an MHI unit. I don't know why you guys bother with these things.

Best of luck anyways.

 

[peypey's ride]

If the wastegate doesn't move initially, you'll overboost once and know there's an issue. Overboosting once doesn't affect the longevity of the unit. You can inspect these units all you want prior to running them, but predicting if/when they'll bomb out is nearly impossible.

For an extra hundred bucks you could have had an MHI unit. I don't know why you guys bother with these things.

Best of luck anyways.

thewraith is testing between the ebay and mhi evo3 turbos. He has both. here is the thread. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273004

 

[Stapl3]

Gotcha

 

[JohnnyT]

Video Broken

 

[JohnnyT]

If the wastegate doesn't move initially, you'll overboost once and know there's an issue. Overboosting once doesn't affect the longevity of the unit. You can inspect these units all you want prior to running them, but predicting if/when they'll bomb out is nearly impossible.

For an extra hundred bucks you could have had an MHI unit. I don't know why you guys bother with these things.

Best of luck anyways.

$100 extra bucks, I don't know where you shop, but to get an MHI turbo and the accessories would be around $700, the Ebay turbos w/accessories cost about $250

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Actually we got the ebay one second hand for $100 with the install kit. I think Wraith said he is selling the old T-25 to the same guy for $100 so we essentially got the turbo for free. The other one we have is an EVO III 16g. If the ebay one dies, will just swap them out.

We are myth busting the ebay turbo claims. One of them was the fact that the waste gates are faulty. This proves that they are indeed NOT faulty, but you do need to adjust them properly in order for them to function as the are supposed to. This would be the same of claming a boost controller does not control boost when you never adjusted it.

Another claim was the slow spool up. We found the reason for that as well.

 

[thewraith]

i'd like to note the following:

I'm just a tool in all this- laserspeeddemon is the expert and i'm depending on his experience and guidance to use best practices here. I think we're doing well so far.

 

[1gcrazy]

Just an idea but if the wastgate loop fits over the arm with slack wouldn't that allow exhaust to slip past the door just a little bit? I mean shouldn't there be some tension when putting the wastegate on the arm? Just enough to keep the door closed when idling?

 

[thewraith]

Actually we got the ebay one second hand for $100 with the install kit. I think Wraith said he is selling the old T-25 to the same guy for $100 so we essentially got the turbo for free. The other one we have is an EVO III 16g. If the ebay one dies, will just swap them out.

We are myth busting the ebay turbo claims. One of them was the fact that the waste gates are faulty. This proves that they are indeed NOT faulty, but you do need to adjust them properly in order for them to function as the are supposed to. This would be the same of claming a boost controller does not control boost when you never adjusted it.

Another claim was the slow spool up. We found the reason for that as well.

Note that the ebay turbo I picked up WITH the install kit is brand new and has never been used. Can't beat $100.

 

[thewraith]

Just an idea but if the wastgate loop fits over the arm with slack wouldn't that allow exhaust to slip past the door just a little bit? I mean shouldn't there be some tension when putting the wastegate on the arm? Just enough to keep the door closed when idling?

Yes- you are correct. But with my hand I still couldn't open that wastegate manually (and i'd consider myself a pretty strong in shape person)- notice the "pop" of the door closing after the air runs out. It's still tight.

 

[voodoogsx]

Awesome work with the video. I was actually considering doing this for all of the work I do on my car.

 

[allwheelTSI]

Probably an air compressor is'nt the best way to do this unless you have some sort of regulator, that compressor could be putting 40-60 lbs into the wastegate and I don't think the diaphragm would like that. I use a Mity-Vac to test my wastegates..

 

[thewraith]

My air compressor has a pressure gauge on it. It was set at 20lbs from the last time we used it to test for boost leaks.

 

[16g-2ndgen]

thanks for that video! that is a good way to adjust.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Just an idea but if the wastgate loop fits over the arm with slack wouldn't that allow exhaust to slip past the door just a little bit? I mean shouldn't there be some tension when putting the wastegate on the arm? Just enough to keep the door closed when idling?

Sorry for the late reply but my email is bombarded with DSMTuners replies.

Thats actually a very good point. But the arm was adjusted so that it JUST fits. There is slight tension on the arm, it should be enough to hold it closed until the boost controller does it's job.

 

[HIGH_PSI_GST]

Great video!! I just may thik about getting my evo III 16g from ebay hehe

 

[Redfwdsm]

good video

 

[JusMX141]

The video should go on to explain the real reason the eBay 16G's can't control boost for sh!t- the nice 34mm wastegate flapper they install for you is covering a 22mm hole:

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If you want even somewhat-decent boost control, you should port the wastegate hole to allow it to take full advantage of the larger flapper:

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[link16]

The video should go on to explain the real reason the eBay 16G's can't control boost for sh!t- the nice 34mm wastegate flapper they install for you is covering a 22mm hole:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

If you want even somewhat-decent boost control, you should port the wastegate hole to allow it to take full advantage of the larger flapper:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

This combined with the video of how to test/adjust it. Is the most useful info on the ebay evo3 turbo yet.

 

[toofast82]

Many of the EBAY turbos use cheap journal bearings which will cause premature failure.

 

[JusMX141]

...BUT the journal bearings should never see wear unless something's causing them to. This could be as simple as compressor surge caused by too stiff of a Blow Off Valve spring or as complicated as an unbalanced compressor or turbine assembly. In any journal bearing turbo, the journal bearings are simply a wear buffer between the turbine shaft and the center housing, much like rod and main bearings are a wear buffer in an engine. If everything is in perfect operating condition, the bearings should never see wear.

This isn't the case with the eBay 16G. Most of the time there's an unacceptable level of unbalance that leads to the turbine shaft contacting the journal bearings, and that starts a chain of downward spiraling wear loads on the journal bearings that oil lubrication alone simply cannot prevent.

Sometime I'm going to make a thread in the Tech section of this site informing all the interested members of the problems and fixes of the eBay 16G.

 

[toofast82]

...BUT the journal bearings should never see wear unless something's causing them to. This could be as simple as compressor surge caused by too stiff of a Blow Off Valve spring or as complicated as an unbalanced compressor or turbine assembly. In any journal bearing turbo, the journal bearings are simply a wear buffer between the turbine shaft and the center housing, much like rod and main bearings are a wear buffer in an engine. If everything is in perfect operating condition, the bearings should never see wear.

This isn't the case with the eBay 16G. Most of the time there's an unacceptable level of unbalance that leads to the turbine shaft contacting the journal bearings, and that starts a chain of downward spiraling wear loads on the journal bearings that oil lubrication alone simply cannot prevent.

Sometime I'm going to make a thread in the Tech section of this site informing all the interested members of the problems and fixes of the eBay 16G.

Great post from someone with plenty of first-hand experience
Explained it perfectly!

 

[JusMX141]

Thanks!

I've definitely rebuilt my fair share of eBay turbos, and I honestly believe they CAN be made good....but at what cost?

There are certain things you're not going to overcome- the eBay 16G's heavy pot-metal cast compressor wheel weighs even more by itself than the MHI Big 16G compressor wheel let alone the super-lightweight Evo III 16G compressor. Based on that one fact alone, there's no way this turbo would ever spool as quickly as a MHI Evo III 16G.

The main reasons the eBay 16G's fail are:

- Balance. I honestly don't think these turbos come properly balanced when they are built, which is why one out of twenty actually survives (luck). If a turbo dies because it isn't balanced properly, it will die a quick and painful death. Cost of a rebalance: $40-$65.
- Inferior seals and journal bearings. The Chinese have to cut corners and use materials that aren't up to par in order to sell these turbos as cheap as they do. The spring steel used for the turbine seals will weaken very quickly, and as a result the turbos will smoke and use oil. The metal that is used for journal bearings is too soft and wears quickly under what most would consider "normal use", causing shaft play. Cost of upgrading the weak internals: $50-$75.
- Poorly designed wastegate system. Sure they use a 34mm flapper....but it's covering a 22mm hole. Wonder how much creep THAT would cause? Cost of porting wastegate hole: Free to $35.

On top of all that you have a turbo that comes with a heavy compressor wheel (due to cheap materials), hindering it's ability to spool as quickly as a MHI Evo III would. There's no fix for that.

Now, take that $229 eBay turbo and add $65 (max) to rebalance it, $75 (max) to replace the sh!tty internals, and $35 (max) for some corrective porting....and for just over $400 you'll have a reliable but slow-spooling eBay 16G.

With FP's current group buy on the MHI Evo III 16G for $499, which would you choose?