Newbie ForumBeginner/newbie/general DSM questions. first mods, how to run 10's when you haven't run 12's yet, any tech question that doesn't fit in another tech forum. New Members must limit their tech posts to this forum and sub-forums.
Hi first I will list the mods I have on my 90 TSI AWD:
Act 2600
fidanza flywheel
Shep trans
boost gauge
MBC
Turboxs RFL BOV
2g ported exhaust manifold
Evo 3 02 housing
Apexi 3 inch turboback exhaust
Eibach springs
KYB struts and shocks
255 walbro fuel pump
rebuilt head with ferrara valves
SAFC2
GM MAF
MAF-T
blow thru intake
UICP
I'm basically looking to figure out exact what else I need to run an evo 3 16g possibly at max boost, also which I don't know what that is( 20 or 24 maybe?) Also I plan on getting tuned on dyno runs.
I can see so far I'll need:
FMIC kit with new UICP for it
650cc injectors
evo 3 16g
wideband 02 gauge
Will I need to get DSM link and DSM chip to get tuned on the dyno / to have this setup?
Any other purchases need to be made? Palm pilot? 4 bolt rear?
Also anyone know a website where I can purchase a new/ used front bumper?
I know there are a ton of posts about 16g setups I just kind of feel like making my own thread to make sure I don't miss ANYTHING on this build. Thanks in advance for any help.
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If you are tuning with SAFC you will need a logger to see the effects of what you are doing, otherwise you are tuning blind. 650's are pretty much the edge for an SAFC, but still doable. You do not need DSMlink or a chip to tune on the dyno, although you will get a much better tune with either. If you have an eprom ECU, you can get a chip tailored to your mods and fine tune it with your SAFC.
Add an adjustable fuel pressure regulator to that list, or you will overrun your stock one.
Rewire the 255 Walbro.
Port the evo3 for boost creep along with your o2 housing while you're at it if you don't plan on going external.
To run that turbo at that boost you will need either race gas, e85, or meth. With the WBo2 you really dont need a logger but you can tune it perfect. The wbo2 is the first upgrade anyone should get. You can do all the tuning with that. With all you mods you mention on pump gas you will only beable to run 17-20psi max.
What are your goals with the car? 24psi on pump is pushing it... lower 20 psi SPIKEs are ok, IMO. My car spikes to 21ish psi and settles to 17ish way up high in the revs.
650cc+ injectors are the minimum to run an evo3 to it's fullest. Other than that seems like a pretty good setup. You could get away with better tuning (dsmlink) and fmic for SURE (you mentioned that already) but you really need to figure out what you want to do. maxing a turbo is one thing but do you want to dyno xxx hp or run xx.x@xxx? A well tuned 16g car is mid 12s all day long.
____________________________
-Ryan
91 TSi AWD - 92 VR-4
I will say my new goal for the car is 20 psi. I do need help in picking up a specific wideband if someone could link me one. Also, what is the best value FMIC kit?
Id say just get a dsm chip programmed for some big injectors, like 850s or 880s and run with the stage 3 chip,( which comes with a buttload of other features, and lets you see knock on the stock boost gauge.) and then fine tune your set up with the safc. Toss in a afpr, and rewire your fuel pump, get yourself a decent fmic kit, and then a wideband02 and a logger and id say youd be good to go to run anywhere from 21-24 psi on pump depending how good your tune is and how well your set up is working as a whole... Your more than half way there now
thanks for the help everyone I know what specific parts I need to order now. Does anyone here know where I can get a front bumper for my 90 talon? I've been searching alot of sites and noone seems to have them. They are also scarse in classifieds on here.
I think you should get Dsmlink and a set of FIC 950cc. My reason is you will eventually get bored of the Evolll and want a bigger turbo. So instead of doing it all over again just get the bigger injectors and tune them in for the Evolll. That way in the future when you drop that big turbo in you wont have to worry about bigger injectors.
Ok I've pretty much got my setup ready. I have 2 final questions. I need help figuring out what options to choose for DSMchips. I am going to get a stage 3 but am unsure in certain areas what to put in.
In case you haven't read the entire thread my setup is basically an evo 3 16g on 20 psi with all the supporting mods.
1: I need to figure out if I'm running stock fuel pressure, and if not what number to run
2: What rpm rev limit
3: Reset octane? ( I don't even know what that is)
4: Eliminate fuel cut yes/no
5: No lift to shift yes/no and if yes at what RPM
6: Keep at stock idle? If not what RPM?
7: High-Speed Closed Loop? (don't know what this is)
I replace the balance shaft belt at some point, but I really want to do the eliminator kit. My question is, with the entire turbo setup off and trans out how many hours of labor do you think it will take to get it done? When I do it is there anything else in that area worth replacing?
I'd really recommend going with DSMLink instead. You have a lot more versatility and futureproofing with that, compared to a burn-once chip. Can change your options if you don't like them, instead of having to buy a new chip every time you want to change something significant (like going to larger injectors, which you'll probably end up doing eventually).
1- 1G stock fuel pressure is 36-38psi with the vacuum reference line disconnected. After it warms up, it should be around 26-27psi with vacuum reference hooked up.
2- 7500 (stock) unless you have an upgraded valvetrain that can keep up with more. Shouldn't need any higher with an E3-16G though.
3- The ECU keeps track of how 'good' the fuel you're putting into it is. With this option, it forgets and goes back to baseline every time you turn the car off (good for swapping between 92 and race gas if you go to the track).
4- No. Fuel cut is the ECU's last desperate attempt to save the engine from a critical operating situation. If you don't have any boost leaks and are running a good tune, you shouldn't see fuel cut anyway.
5- Yes, ~4-5K for an AWD
6- Stock idle, if you want to pass your state's equivalent to smog.
7- Yes. Lets you cruise the freeway at more than 4Krpm and keep closed-loop operation... better for fuel economy if the car is a DD, and you like to cruise fast.
I'd really recommend going with DSMLink instead. You have a lot more versatility and futureproofing with that, compared to a burn-once chip. Can change your options if you don't like them, instead of having to buy a new chip every time you want to change something significant (like going to larger injectors, which you'll probably end up doing eventually).
1- 1G stock fuel pressure is 36-38psi with the vacuum reference line disconnected. After it warms up, it should be around 26-27psi with vacuum reference hooked up.
I'd recommend 43 psi which is the industry standard so you get the most out of your injectors. The downside is this will put a little more stress on your pump, but you won't run out of a Walbro 255 lph any time soon, especially if it's rewired.
4- No. Fuel cut is the ECU's last desperate attempt to save the engine from a critical operating situation. If you don't have any boost leaks and are running a good tune, you shouldn't see fuel cut anyway.
Fuel cut is based on how much airflow the ECU sees. Refer to this thread for more information: Airflow & fuel cut
The chip does not compensate for injectors by "masking" some airflow readings like a SAFC--it actually modifies the fuel maps. Thus, if you don't disable fuel cut, you will be limited by the pre-programmed limit. To explain, if you run 650cc injectors your global should be -30.7%. Now, assume you're flowing 30 lbs/min of actual airflow. If you were to run the SAFC, the ECU would only see 20.7 lbs/min airflow. While running the chip, your ECU will still see 30 lbs/min. Thus, without disabling fuel cut on the chip, you will be screwed.
I'd recommend using the stock fuel pressure, as that's what the ECU is expecting. If you're already changing your fuel trims though and can compensate for it, by all means go for the higher pressure (better atomization too).
I had an evo 3 and i just swapped to a bullseye 50 trim, i noticed a big power difference. I would just skip over the 16g, evetually you will want to get something bigger so you might as well just do it now, it seems like your supporting mods will be able to handle it.
If you want to run a E316g to 24-26 psi (which is about the limits of this turbo), you can do so with 660cc injectors on 93 Octane. Fine tune it, I would toss the SAFC for something with more control like an AEM EMS or DSMLink.
Other then that you seem to be about good to go with the setup.
Ds-Map
