What is safe to run on stock dp and intercooler with big 16g?

[96gstdsm]

Ok well my car is almost done. Got a rebuilt 6 bolt block with 1g big rods and 2g pistons. Big 16g turbo, 190 walbro, 650 injectors, ecu+ for tuning. Fuel pump is also rewired. I am wondering what I can run since I still have the stock restrictive dp? I am also still on my stock sidemount. I am going to be daily driving this only for now. I will of course give it some full gas once in a while. For mostly highway cruising and some street driving is there anything I should really worry about? Is it ok to still run like maybe 18 or so psi with that? I do of course want to get a new downpipe and fmic, but just ran out of money at the moment. I will be giving the engine a 500 mile break in period without the big injectors, but would like to know if it would be worth it or even do able to go get it dyno tuned and then get on it sometimes WOT with the restrictions it still has? I of course in a perfect world would love to wait till I had the money, but I'm sure I will be quite excited and curious to see what it can do, so would like to know what the safe limits I could take it to? I will of course be monitoring knock with the ecu+ and my palm. I am going to keep the boost down low until it is tuned also.
If people have had personal experience with this please let me know.
I am hoping to be somewhere around 300 whp. Might not happen till I get the new fmic and dp, but somewhere close.

[bob123131]

As long as you have good tuning you can run 18psi if you want, but it might not be that effiecent since your side mount will defintly heat soak, but tons of people have ran a similar set up on stock side mount. I would highy doubt though that you will run much over 260 whp with that setup just to tell you.

[gsxeclipse97]

its not recomended to run more than 15psi on the stock side mount due to lack of capictiy of our smic

[96gstdsm]

Originally Posted by bob123131

As long as you have good tuning you can run 18psi if you want, but it might not be that efficient since your side mount will definitely heat soak, but tons of people have ran a similar set up on stock side mount. I would highly doubt though that you will run much over 260 whp with that setup just to tell you.

Hey thanks. Just the info I needed to know. 260 is fine. I don't really care to much what numbers I get now, just the numbers I get when I get the dp, and fmic hooked up and all tuned. Then 300whp is going to be the goal I would hope for, and would think would be very attainable. I am not familiar really with heat soak. I know what it is, but how greatly does it effect the performance? If I am getting heat soak and all, would a fmic and dp really net me another 40whp? Seems that 300whp on a good tune is pretty easily done with the mods I have. Not the ones listed in my profile but the ones I got with the build in progress.

[96gstdsm]

Originally Posted by Xeiros

15-18PSI is what I'd recommend. I'd also recommend you try and stash about 120 bucks and snag an ebay downpipe.

Yeah I'm going to shortly, just spent like 6 grand or more recently on my car so really pretty much flat broke for another few weeks. Will be my first thing on my list to get when I get a couple bills to spend. Just going to be so anxious to see how the big increase in power feels. This is the first time I have modified a car or anything so really don't know what I'm in for with the power. So I would like to be able to put the boost up a decent amount so I can get an idea what it is like.
Would the restriction with the dp pose any threats at all? Or just would not perform as well as it could?

[gsxeclipse97]

Originally Posted by Xeiros

15-18PSI is what I'd recommend. I'd also recommend you try and stash about 120 bucks and snag an ebay downpipe.

On a 16g I would figure 15 would be safer due to it flows more air than a 14b which is what i have. i think with it flowing more air at the same psi he would be better off keeping it at 15. 18 getting up there also will the I/C pipe stay on I blew off my old pipe at 17 once a long time ago and it was on there good. No problems though with it down at 15.

[96gstdsm]

The problem with running a stock downpipe with a larger turbo such as the 16g with high boost is boost creep. You'll start having issues with it (and you'll likely have issues with it regardless unless you've ported your 02 housing) because you'll have a massive bottleneck right after your turbo.[/quote]


I thought boost creep was caused by a larger downpipe, such as a 3"? I had read here that you would have more boost creep with a 3" than a 2.5"?

[black91awdturbo]

there is some bad info in this thread, a 3inch down pipe will create boost creep for sure. I wouldnt run any where near 18psi on your side mount because it will heat soak and cause knock like crazy and you will loose more power than if you left boost at 12-15 psi. So in short keep boost lower, and if you get a 3inch dp port your o2 hole in your turbo and port your o2 housing that will help with the creep 16g's are known for.

[black91awdturbo]

My dp on my fwd 1g is the same way and you still will hit boost creep most well built down pipes are that way for a reason. I would go no where near 18psi due to knock period, if you dont think I am right do a search for some one with a log on that kinda boost with the smic.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Xeiros

The problem with running a stock downpipe with a larger turbo such as the 16g with high boost is boost creep. You'll start having issues with it (and you'll likely have issues with it regardless unless you've ported your 02 housing) because you'll have a massive bottleneck right after your turbo.

The more free flowing your exhast system is, the more exhaust flow likes to bypass the wastegate path and take the path with the least resistance, the turbine path, I don't even think it's possible to creep with a stock DP.

I've heard of having issues with it if you've got a T25 and a 3" turbo-back, but not with a 16g.

T25 hardly creeps, it probably couldn't creep much even if it tries, it's the EVO III 16G that is known for boost creep.

but to clairify for you, even then it depends on how the car reacts to it. If you start hitting fuel cut, you want to turn it back because you might be running into heatsoak.

If he is hitting fuel cut, it would be due to either improper tune or boost leaks, not heatsoaking, just to clarify it for you.

He's likely going to get creep regardless with that turbo, which means he's going to want to port his 02 housing or run an external wastegate LIKE I SAID.

Boost creep is cause by poor wastegate path design of the turbine housing, very little to do with the flow capacity of the O2 housing. Furthermore, a free flowing exhaust doesn't cause boost creep, it simply reveals this design flaw.

[black91awdturbo]

thanks oldman, like I said there was a ton of bad info being given in that thread.

[oldman]

No problem, the "report post" button works wonders, you should try it sometimes.

[96gstdsm]

Oldman, what would you suggest being the highest possible boost I could safely run with the smic and stock dp? I do have all the proper fuel mods and all. I have a 3" catback but no after market dp yet unfortunately. Like I said in a couple posts earlier in this thread I will be properly modding it with the dp and fmic, but I really want to feel a nice difference right away(after break in period and tune of course) since I have spent so much money on the car and all, really want to feel a huge difference right away as I can hardly wait any longer to have it back. Any suggestions or input you might have I would really appreciate.

[black91awdturbo]

Originally Posted by oldman

No problem, the "report post" button works wonders, you should try it sometimes.

I will keep it in mind next time, I just figured I would help with some correct info first.

with the stock sidemount I would keep it to 12-15 psi on the 16g due to knock from heat soak, knock is very distructive to your motor. And with the 16g at that boost level you will feel the extra power that you gained over the t25 for sure.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by 96gstdsm

Oldman, what would you suggest being the highest possible boost I could safely run with the smic and stock dp? I do have all the proper fuel mods and all. I have a 3" catback but no after market dp yet unfortunately. Like I said in a couple posts earlier in this thread I will be properly modding it with the dp and fmic, but I really want to feel a nice difference right away(after break in period and tune of course) since I have spent so much money on the car and all, really want to feel a huge difference right away as I can hardly wait any longer to have it back. Any suggestions or input you might have I would really appreciate.

Ryan, the only way to answer your question is to log and raise your boost level until you see knock then back it down a little. To be safe without a logger, I would say 15psi assuming everything else is functioning properly.

BTW if your 16g isn't properly ported, you will most likely start to creep as soon as you install the larger downpipe.

[96gstdsm]

Originally Posted by oldman

Ryan, the only way to answer your question is to log and raise your boost level until you see knock then back it down a little. To be safe without a logger, I would say 15psi assuming everything else is functioning properly.

BTW if your 16g isn't properly ported, you will most likely start to creep as soon as you install the larger downpipe.

If after the dp and fmic if I keep the boost higher will creep be much of a problem still? Can I safely run it around 20 psi or something? With a logger of course and full fuel support and all? and dyno tuning it with ecu+?
This is a big 16g turbo, not the evo3 16g, would that be as bad with boost creep?

[oldman]

Originally Posted by 96gstdsm

If after the dp and fmic if I keep the boost higher will creep be much of a problem still? Can I safely run it around 20 psi or something? With a logger of course and full fuel support and all? and dyno tuning it with ecu+?
This is a big 16g turbo, not the evo3 16g, would that be as bad with boost creep?

B16g doesn't have as bad of reputation as the EVO3 but that might have to do with there're simply a lot more EVO3 users. The degree of creep is hard to predict because it will differ from car to car, setup to setup. for example, my s16g use to creep to 24psi (fuel cut) with 2.5" exhaust and a hi flow cat.

[96gstdsm]

ok thanks makes sense, guess I'll be finding out soon enough anyways, should be getting my car back next week. Just hoping everything will be fine.
I brought my car to a shop in jersey(Dogbox racing) since I see your in NJ too, don't know if you know them, they said that the big 16g should be much better in regards to boost creep, but I guess I'll have to find out how it is once I upgrade my dp.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by 96gstdsm

I brought my car to a shop in jersey(Dogbox racing) since I see your in NJ too, don't know if you know them,

I hear they do good work, especially tranny related.