quick newb ?

[2G_RFF_GST]

It's been awhile since i've been on this site. It depresses me due to lack of money. I'm selling my GST though and getting either a TSI or GSX. Just checking to make sure i'm correct...

6 bolts are more desired over 7 bolts right?

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

Only by people that are building high HP motors and people who are too shadowed and think that every 7 bolt will get crankwalk. A 6 bolt can handle a little more power stock. But most people will kill for a 6 bolt when there is nothing wrong with 7 bolts. I have built a couple myself and had ZERO problems. Just depends on what kinda car you get and how many miles.

 

[Bo0O0ostedDSM]

6 bolts are more desired over 7 bolts right?

Yes, a 6-bolt is the more dependable/desirable of the two. 7-bolts have a tendency to "walk", 6-bolts don't.

 

[nightspeed87]

the rods are beefier on the 6bolt leading to believe it can handle more torque, and there has been some guys who've broken into the 500whp on stock 6bolt motors. I dont know the record for the stock 7bolt motor, but a 6bolt would just be the better choice obviously.
But then if your budget isnt all that great right now sticking with a 7 for a while wont be bad either because there are other problems with running a 6bolt in a 2g without link or some sort of device because you will get other problems. I dont know the info that well since I dont have a 2g but I know its not a swap plug and play then drive scenario.

 

[Spoolio]

6Bolt - GREAT

7Bolt - BAD

This could be why anyone that buys a 2g or 92.5+ 1G and are going for power and motor strength ushally start off with buying a 6bolt motor for thier first mod. 7Bolts just dont work out. They crankwalk 100% more times then any 6Bolt. Do you really want to chance throwing a rod through your block under extreme rpms?

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

6Bolt - GREAT

7Bolt - BAD

This could be why anyone that buys a 2g or 92.5+ 1G and are going for power and motor strength ushally start off with buying a 6bolt motor for thier first mod. 7Bolts just dont work out. They crankwalk 100% more times then any 6Bolt. Do you really want to chance throwing a rod through your block under extreme rpms?

I know tons of people running 400+ on stock 7 bolt bottom ends without ever thinking twice about rebuilding it and going to a 6 bolt. Any motor can walk. If you rebuild the 7 bolt the chances are descreased significantly. I am pushing 340 right now and showing no sign's of walking and won't get a 6 bolt if something does happen so obviously not everyone does it. And crankwalk has 0 to do with throwing a rod through the block. Two completely different things. Crankwalk bascially locks the motor up. Not saying it doesn't happen but more than not it doesn't.

 

[Spoolio]

Heh trust me, anytime anything goes wrong with your crank, bearings, rods, pistons, at really high rpms anything can happen. Partscan go flying if anything in your bottom end instantly looks up or breaks free.

 

[GRNDSM]

Crankwalk is just one reason to stay away from 7 bolt motors. Lately I have seen an epidemic of thrown rods! This usually happens on higher mileage cars (over 100-120k miles). But it seems that if your 7 bolt motor does not crankwalk, it will eventually toss a rod... Ether way, you are screwed...

Lastly, those engines are more difficult to rebuild. They weren't manufactured to same tight tolerances, as 6 bolt engines were, which is why they required different sets of bearings.

Aftermarket bearings usually come in one size, so you have a good chance of not properly fitting.

So add me to the list 7 bolt engine haters .

BTW, I was one of the first people to discover many of these problems, when I rebuilt 7 bolt 1G engine, back in '97.

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

Weren't the later 7 bolt motors, 98-99, machined better and with different/better thrust bearings?

 

[GRNDSM]

Yes, they have totally different style of thrust bearing. However, they are still crankwalking, though, not at the same high rate. And they still have the habit of "tossing rods".

Given a choice between two 7 bolt motors, I would pick one of those later motors...

 

[Bo0O0ostedDSM]

6Bolt - GREAT

7Bolt - BAD

This could be why anyone that buys a 2g or 92.5+ 1G and are going for power and motor strength ushally start off with buying a 6bolt motor for thier first mod. 7Bolts just dont work out. They crankwalk 100% more times then any 6Bolt. Do you really want to chance throwing a rod through your block under extreme rpms?

Now see, thats just not true. I've had two DSMs equipped with 7-bolt motors and both held up fine for me! I would never replace a perfectly working 7-bolt for a 6-bolt, as you suggest. Thats seems to be throwing away money because your worried about what could happen. That said, if a 7-bolt engine ever "walked" on me or blew up, I definitely would swap it for a 6-bolt. Assuming that doesn't happen *knock on wood*, I'm sticking with the 7-bolt.

 

[Bo0O0ostedDSM]

Yes, they have totally different style of thrust bearing. However, they are still crankwalking, though, not at the same high rate. And they still have the habit of “tossing rods”.

Given a choice between two 7 bolt motors, I would pick one of those later motors

Do you know when they modified the thrust bearing on the 7-bolt? Was it 97-99 or 98-99?

 

[GRNDSM]

It was in '98, so even some early '98 supposedly had the old style thrust bearing. You should be able to tell by punching VIN into CAPs.

And I too would not replace a 7 bolt motor with a 6 bolt, BEFORE something actually happens to it. But I would have a 6 bolt motor sitting in my garage, ready to go in .

 

[dsmclipse97]

Crankwalking is WAY over discussed. it only ever happens to maybe 2-4% of 7 bolt motors. while this number is pretty high when compared to other engines, like the 6 bolt, its not something that is worth taking preventative measures like swapping for a 6 bolt when the 7 is working just fine. Most 7 bolts have enough miles on them by now that if they were going to walk, they would have already. 2g rods are weaker, but the pistons are better.

 

[Spoolio]

Im not trying to upset any 7bolt owners, the dude asked if 6bolt engines were more desired then 7bolt engines and i simply answered YES. And gave him some of my own thoughts on it. No offense to any current 7bolt "builders".

 

[Spoolio]

I'm not trying to say that ever single 7bolt motor is going to walk on you, im trying to tell this guy that it IS a known problem with these motors, just like any car, even 1G's are known for things screwing up, like our power window motors, this doesnt happen in every single 1g dsm, but happens often enough to become a known problem.

Also im not trying to tell anyone that buys a 2G to go out and replace thier motor with a 6bolt, cause i wouldnt. If i bought a 2G i would do whatever i wanted to do with it, but if i ever have to spend 1000$ on it to make it run i would not think twice about swapping a 6bolt in asap.

 

[fwdturbobov1996]

I know of 3 local 6 bolts taht have " walked ". There have been about 5 7 bolts that have walked within the past 5 years within the whole dsm community in KC. Anything can happen.

 

[Spoolio]

And are you sure those 6bolts just didnt blow a rod bearing?, and they are so strung up on the dsm term crankwalk they thought it was cool to say "Yo son, my dsm just walked yo"

 

[Bo0O0ostedDSM]

I'm not trying to say that ever single 7bolt motor is going to walk on you, im trying to tell this guy that it IS a known problem with these motors, just like any car, even 1G's are known for things screwing up, like our power window motors, this doesnt happen in every single 1g dsm, but happens often enough to become a known problem.

Also im not trying to tell anyone that buys a 2G to go out and replace thier motor with a 6bolt, cause i wouldnt. If i bought a 2G i would do whatever i wanted to do with it, but if i ever have to spend 1000$ on it to make it run i would not think twice about swapping a 6bolt in asap.

I understand what you mean now, and I totally agree with you... 6-bolt > 7-bolt. My only concern/gripe was in your original post, you made it sound like anyone wanting to build a high horsepower DSM should (and does) do a 6-bolt swap regardless of the condition of their 7-bolt. I just feel that doing a 6-bolt swap in such cases is irrational... thats all. I wasn't "offended" by your comments on the 7-bolt, and I didn't mean to come on too strong/defensive with my comments either.

 

[Bo0O0ostedDSM]

It was in '98, so even some early '98 supposedly had the old style thrust bearing. You should be able to tell by punching VIN into CAPs.

And I too would not replace a 7 bolt motor with a 6 bolt, BEFORE something actually happens to it. But I would have a 6 bolt motor sitting in my garage, ready to go in .

Thanks for the quick response, Leon. Looks like I missed the reinforced thrust bearing by one year.

And your second paragraph... my thoughts exactly.

 

[Spoolio]

I understand what you mean now, and I totally agree with you... 6-bolt > 7-bolt. My only concern/gripe was in your original post, you made it sound like anyone wanting to build a high horsepower DSM should (and does) do a 6-bolt swap regardless of the condition of their 7-bolt. I just feel that doing a 6-bolt swap in such cases is irrational... thats all. I wasn't "offended" by your comments on the 7-bolt, and I didn't mean to come on too strong/defensive with my comments either.

No problem man, i tend to word things in my own way of thinking, forgetting that everyone else in the world does not think like me. heh

 

[dsmclipse97]

there is one thing im not clear on about crankwalking... when a motor walks is the block trashed? or can you do a full bottom end rebuild and be all set? Possibly a dumb question but its been bugging me.