WOT Sputter

matt98eclipse · 05-29-2012, 09:47 PM

Hey guys ive been having this sputter problems around 6g rpm range were car feels kinda like fuel cut. I cant really tell if its from running to lean or not. when you guys look at the logs you will see what im talkin about by the rpms. Can you guys please look over these logs and see what you guys think. Im fairly new to tuning with link.

I just wanna get this dam car tuned and start makin some good power

heres couple logs i just did tonight.

snowborder714 · 05-30-2012, 05:40 AM

I don't see anything abnormal in those logs that would cause a sputter. I'd pull the plugs and inspect. Possibly gap them down to .024-.026" and/or go to colder plugs (BR7ES). I'm not sure what boost you're running, but if it's above 18 psi or so, consider going to a colder plug gapped at .028".

You do need to tune your airflow though, as the wideband values are deviating from the AFRatioEst values.

boost97gst · 05-30-2012, 05:46 AM

I only looked at the first one. At nearly 16psi your afr is 12.4. Ive always been taught 11.1:1 is what we should shoot for with 93oct gas. Your running up near 15* timing. I gotta say, im surprised theres so little knock. Your knock sensor is ok right? I would try and richen that mixture up. Your boostest and actual boos line up really well actually but the afrest and actual are quite a ways off. Your an SD guy so i cant comment on how to remedy that problem but if it were fixed you would be much richer, even too rich, at wot.

sno, ninja's me... he nailed it tho.

snowborder714 · 05-30-2012, 05:56 AM

The logged wideband value you're seeing is incorrect because the airflow calibration is off. If you check out the DA MaxOct table, you'll see he's targeting 11:1 at the higher load/RPM range. This can be seen in the AFRatioEst value (will always show what the ECU thinks it should be hitting).

matt98eclipse · 05-30-2012, 06:22 AM

Thanks guys for quick response. I'm running cop setup with the 6es plugs gaps are set at .28. I'm really starting to Wounder if it has something to do with the cop setup? My boost controller is set for around 20 psi so I'll go down today to get some 7es plugs gap them at .24 and then see what happens but it breaks up bad right around 6g. So I always let off right away.

snowborder714 · 05-30-2012, 06:29 AM

I would start by swapping it out for a working stock setup. Coil packs which aren't installed with a CDI tend to cause more issues than they're worth.

matt98eclipse · 05-30-2012, 07:21 AM

Ok cool ill switch it out for a stock coil pack and wires and see what happens with that then report back to you brian.

snowborder714 · 05-30-2012, 07:33 AM

If you really want to test just that system, don't touch the plugs and swap out only the COP for coil pack and wires. Then see how the car responds. Then I'd pull the plugs anyway after running it for a bit and see what's going on with them.

matt98eclipse · 06-02-2012, 01:15 AM

UPDATE: I removed the COP setup and went back to the stock coil and wire and the sputter in higher rpms went away!! Car pulls a bit harder now but i still am getting some knock up top. So it was forsure the cop causeing my issue here.

Should i go ahead and do another 3 rd gear pull??

WES_393 · 06-02-2012, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt98eclipse

UPDATE: I removed the COP setup and went back to the stock coil and wire and the sputter in higher rpms went away!! Car pulls a bit harder now but i still am getting some knock up top. So it was forsure the cop causeing my issue here.

Should i go ahead and do another 3 rd gear pull??

COP's are typically a downgrade from factory coils (even though they look great sitting on the valve cover). Glad to hear your problem was quickly solved. Definitely take another 3rd gear log and post it up.

matt98eclipse · 06-02-2012, 01:41 AM

Thanks for the fast response. Ill be going out and doing another 3rd gear pull tomorrow and report back to you guys. I know im still getting little bit of knock cause i have my cel set to come on with more then like 2 deg of knock. but car def pulls hard with factory setup. looks like ill be selling the COP setup.... Sucks cause like you had sad they look alot nicer and cleaner lookin the coil wires and coil pack.

WES_393 · 06-02-2012, 01:50 AM

They do look a lot nicer, but without a CDI they aren't used to their full ability.

I would also definitely check out this link. I used it to get my wideband and AFREstimate in sync with eachother. It helps tremendously when your real A/F ratio and the ECU's assumed A/F ratio are at least close.
maftcalibrationbywbo2 [ECMTuning - wiki]

matt98eclipse · 06-02-2012, 02:09 AM

Yea corey on here made me a video on how to set the volts to match so the wideband and afrest match each other. i thought i had them dialed in really close at one point but not sure what has happened with that.

With those 2 not matching will it be alot harder to tune?

Also that link really woundnt apply to me cause im running speed density correct?

gofer · 06-02-2012, 02:23 AM

Matt, that video is now posted in our sites tech articles but that isn't what he is talking about. That video shows you how to line up your wideband AFR on the gauge to the wideband AFR being logged, AFREstimate is a whole different value and to get it to line up with the WB AFR requires a bit of tuning.

Again, sorry I haven't popped in here even though you text me about it a few days ago.

Glad to hear you got that sputter taken care of, those COP setups are cosmetic unless you install a CDI like everyone's already mentioned. I've seen DSMer's on Link forums run up to 700+whp on the stock ignition system, definitely don't need to upgrade that yet.

Tomorrow, while you're doing that 3rd gear pull, start it early in the RPM band for us. A good 3rd gear WOT log runs from 2.5k to 7k, considering everything checks out while you're mashing it, and don't ease into the gas. When you start that log just go straight to 100% WOT at 2.5k and don't lift until you see that CEL flicker or AFR's on the WB aren't right.

You're doing this on E85 now, correct? Also, add VE to your captured values so we can upload your log in LinkTools and tune it a lot faster.

P.S. Those AFR/timing tables you've got are 91oct tunes, if you are running E85 let me know so I can send you E85 AFR/timing tables.

matt98eclipse · 06-02-2012, 02:51 AM

Hey corey good to hear from you man. Ill be selling that COP setup now since i know it doesnt do me any good. But i have still be running just 91 oct but cars pretty much on e at this point so tomorrow i can drive out to gas station and fill her up with just straight e85... So pretty much in 3rd gear right at 2.5 rpms just smash it intell the cel light flickers huh? Ill get this done tomorrow for sure. Ive got little over 4 thousand miles on motor and wanna start makein some good power. Also ill go ahead and add VE to my captured values

also after i put nothing but e85 fuel in what should i go ahead and change my global and deadtimes to in link? Right now with 91 there set at -58.2 and usecs.

gofer · 06-02-2012, 03:07 AM

If you were to fill up on E85 tomorrow you'd have to post an idle/cruise log a few times before you could do any WOT. Since you've got 91 in there now lets finish up this tune first and work out any bugs yet.

matt98eclipse · 06-02-2012, 03:35 AM

Ok sounds good to me. Ill report back to you guys with that log as soon as i can get to it.

donniekak · 06-02-2012, 07:43 AM

If you plan on running some boost on the e85 with the stock coils, get some br8es plugs, and start around .020" on the gap. Anything over .024" and 30+ psi, and I would get blowout.

matt98eclipse · 06-02-2012, 10:43 AM

Thanks Donnie for the tip! I do plan on running 30+ someday

I just went outside and did 2 solid 3rd gear pulls from 2.5 till i seen my cel light come on from knock.

Tell me what you guys think please.

gofer · 06-02-2012, 02:37 PM

First things first, there are a few reasons why the car is running lean under boost. To begin with, just open up the adjustments I made and then save them to your cars ECU. I richened up your globals a bit in the fuel tab and then made a few adjustments to your SD VE table as well, hopefully now your logged WB AFR matches the AFREstimate like it should.

Matt (AZ) 91oct settings 1JUN12.ecm

Matt (AZ) 91oct DA 1JUN12.eda

Quick question, I noticed you're no longer using the LinearWB value to log. Are you 110% certain that the AEMWBGauge value logs your WB accurately because, if it doesn't, we can accurately tune your car.

Same deal as before, WOT from 2.5k until you see knock on the CEL OR your wideband is showing 12:1 or leaner. It wouldn't hurt to include a minute or two of idle/cruise in the log either, with these changes I made to your globals it will also affect your fuel trims during idle/cruise so I'll need to get them lined back up, too.

matt98eclipse · 06-02-2012, 08:04 PM

Heres new 3rd gear pull after you did the changes corey. Dang man i must say car pulls so much harder and spool up alot faster it feels like! Still getting only 1.1 degree of knock witch is way better then before.

Also corey tonight im gonna put in a stiffer spring in my external wastegate to see if that helps with my horrible boost drop. still hitting 20psi by 4700 rpm then drops down to only around 15 psi by redline!

Thanks again guys.

snowborder714 · 06-03-2012, 06:16 AM

Everything from 4000 RPM's looks good. Just need to adjust the stuff before that to get AFRatioEst and wideband lined up.

gofer · 06-03-2012, 10:16 AM

Matt, these DA tables NEED to be loaded and the error you got, "Incompatible file version while reading ByteRecord," was from not having the most recent software updates. So, before you do anything you should go over to Link and download the lastest software or else you won't be able to make changes to your DA. ECMTuning, Inc.

There was a bit more to that log than your others so, as Brian said, these new tunes I've attached have changes made to low RPM/low load cells too. The changes I made were to the timing table, I advanced timing during spool up and then retarded it at peak torque (full boost) and the rest of the RPM band. Hopefully we'll clear up any of that detonation, although minor, that was in your last log. Also, I made a few changes to your AFR's during spool up and leaned it out a smidge so the turbo spools a bit faster.

Matt (AZ) 91oct settings 3JUN12.ecm

Matt (AZ) 91oct DA 3JUN12.eda

Does the car have any driveability issues, i.e., warming up, idling, cruising?

matt98eclipse · 06-03-2012, 12:14 PM

Awsome Corey thanks for finding out what that error message was. I'll be going to link site and downloading the latest software version then get those tunes loaded into link and see how she does! Also only other issue I've been having with her is idle. On cold start idle she doesn't wanna stay running on her Owen I have to give her just little bit of gas to keep her running at idle when motors cold. Other then that the cruise seems to be perfect man.

gofer · 06-03-2012, 12:22 PM

A friend, who's on these forums but likes remaining anonymous, just helped me solve this issue with my car too. On your next set of tunes, after you do this WOT pull, I'll correct the idle issue.

matt98eclipse · 06-03-2012, 08:27 PM

I just finished downloading the newest software and got your 2 newest files downloaded into the ecu and corey i must say man each time i do a 3rd gear pull its getting faster and faster your doing a great job man! Also i did a cold start idle and cruise log along with a 3rd gear pull. Tell me what you think?

matt98eclipse · 06-05-2012, 08:33 PM

Hey guys i added a little more boost and switched out my boost controller with a good one now my boost is under controll a bit better now. Heres 2 of the newest logs now with boost set at 25psi.

first log was with my 2 step dam thing launch so hard!! flowing 45lbs

second log was a 3rd gear pull along with a little big of cruise.

Tell me what you guys think about these logs please!

gofer · 06-05-2012, 09:17 PM

We're kind of doing the ass-backwards since I know your closed loop fuel trims are garbage but, while you're doing WOT pulls, we'll get you going fast first I suppose.

Advanced timing a bit during spool up and retarded it at peak boost and a few degrees where you upset the knock sensor a little. Also tweaked the VE map so your WB better line up perfectly next time you mash the gas.

---> You're maxed running Link v3 lite on 26psi. Read the product comparison page, v3 is good to 10k RPM and 40psi and v3 lite is good to 8k and 26psi. Wiki: Product Comparison

matt98eclipse · 06-05-2012, 11:25 PM

Asome corey ill upload those tunes into the ecu tomorrow and get back with you to let you know how she does! Looks like i might be takein her out to the track this weekend to see what kind of slips she will run

That sucks that were pretty much maxed out right now

Looks like ill have to upgrade to the full version now!!