PLEASE HELP 1st log in a while and looks BAD

[DSM-Franek]

I just did a log and it looks real bad

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Its Time, RPM, Timing, Air Flow, and o2v sorry I cut that off, hi settings are -11 all the way accross

ANY insight would be greatly appretiated!

Thanks
-Frank

 

[roni-wan]

What are your mods and boost levels?

 

[2gGSX]

Check for boost leaks and the usual culprits. Get a wideband if you can, but it looks like you're still obscenely rich if you're only pulling -11% airflow. 660's are supposed to have ~-32%. Your O2 values reflect that you are very rich.

Read the tuning guides again if possible, but definitely get your fuel trims in check and then work on WOT tuning.

 

[DSM-Franek]

Check for boost leaks and the usual culprits. Get a wideband if you can, but it looks like you're still obscenely rich if you're only pulling -11% airflow. 660's are supposed to have ~-32%. Your O2 values reflect that you are very rich.

Read the tuning guides again if possible, but definitely get your fuel trims in check and then work on WOT tuning.

Mods are in my profile. May be 660s or 550s i'm not positive, this log was 16psi creeping to about 19psi.

I can't get my fuel trims in check because my o2v doesn't cycle at idle. I've narrowed that problem down the ecu.

But based on timing what would you suggest? Could I have a problem with my base timing? I have a thread with a base timing question here
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=271129

Thanks
-Frank

 

[spyderturbo007]

What did you end up finding with the O2 sensor? Did you probe the wire with a volt meter at idle?

I would suggest that you start by pulling an injector and finding out what size they are. Did you buy them used? Have you done all the pre-tuning basics like, plugs, wires, fuel filter, blah, blah?

 

[DSM-Franek]

What did you end up finding with the O2 sensor? Did you probe the wire with a volt meter at idle?

I would suggest that you start by pulling an injector and finding out what size they are. Did you buy them used? Have you done all the pre-tuning basics like, plugs, wires, fuel filter, blah, blah?

Plugs are new NGK 1 step colder gapped to .028
Wires are brand new NGK
Fuel filter is brand new mitsu
I do have a small boost leak at the compressor housing seal but nothing else anywhere.

I pulled an injector a while back and posted pics on a thread on here and people were suggesting they might be evo 550s but they guy who sold me the car said 660s.

Never did find out what was wrong with the o2 sensor readings on my car at idle and cruise though.. I pulled my o2 sensor and installed it in a buddys car and it cycled fine at idle though and his in my car did the same sitting at .02v-.04v at idle. Maybe its something with my ecu? I'm almost positive not the wiring on my car though.

Did you check out that other thread about my base timing? Because timing in the log above looks scarey to me

Thanks alot,
-Frank

 

[2gGSX]

In my opinion, I'm willing to bet that your knock is coming from rich knock. If they were 550's, then you're pulling 7% less than you're supposed to, and if they were 650's, then you're pulling 21% less than you're supposed to.

Base timing shouldn't cause this much knock unless it's REALLY far off, especially since you're running the less aggressive 2g timing maps. To correctly check it, you MUST ground base timing and use a timing light. Refer to these:
http://www.plymouthlaser.com/timin.htm
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/wayback/BradBauer/engine/timing.html

To verify whether your ECU is bad or not, you can open it up and visually inspect it. Things to look for include "goo" and a weird smell. Alternatively, you can try swapping in someone else's working ECU and see if your O2 works again.

 

[DSM-Franek]

In my opinion, I'm willing to bet that your knock is coming from rich knock. If they were 550's, then you're pulling 7% less than you're supposed to, and if they were 650's, then you're pulling 21% less than you're supposed to.

Base timing shouldn't cause this much knock unless it's REALLY far off, especially since you're running the less aggressive 2g timing maps. To correctly check it, you MUST ground base timing and use a timing light. Refer to these:
http://www.plymouthlaser.com/timin.htm
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/wayback/BradBauer/engine/timing.html

To verify whether your ECU is bad or not, you can open it up and visually inspect it. Things to look for include "goo" and a weird smell. Alternatively, you can try swapping in someone else's working ECU and see if your O2 works again.

Being a 1997 I do not have the brown base timing plug or anything else I can ground to set base timing.

Thanks alot though and if you know any ways please let me know!
-Frank

 

[2gGSX]

Unfortunately, I can't think of anything other than DSMLink which will ground timing on a 2g (I actually forgot that's the only option that I've come across). Luckily, I still think that this is being caused by rich knock. Try to get your injectors flow tested and/or cleaned at a shop locally. Alternatively, a wideband should also be able to indicate which injectors you have.

 

[spyderturbo007]

In my opinion, I'm willing to bet that your knock is coming from rich knock. If they were 550's, then you're pulling 7% less than you're supposed to, and if they were 650's, then you're pulling 21% less than you're supposed to.

I didn't even see that. I was just looking at the O2 sensor voltages and assumed his correction factors were close.

Frank, drop the settings to -18% and make another pull. Log the same parameters you did before, since I'm courious to see what the O2 sensor does.

 

[DSM-Franek]

Frank, drop the settings to -18% and make another pull. Log the same parameters you did before, since I'm courious to see what the O2 sensor does.

Will do sir

Thanks alot!
-Frank

 

[DSM-Franek]

OK I did another log -16% all the way accross and the timing does look better, I guess I did have a severe case of rich knock and I still may be rich.

I'm not really looking at the o2v at all because i'm having issues with that. I'm prety much just looking at timing.

This log was at 17psi creeping to 19-20psi .

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Tell me what you think!

Thanks alot for all the help so far!
-Frank

 

[2gGSX]

Your calculated g/rev at 4852, 5368, and 5860 RPM are (respectively) 1.85, 1.92, 1.80 indicating that you are on the third highest timing map at these RPM levels, based on user zippyshoe's post here: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showpost.php?p=151280193&postcount=11

Your timing advance 4500, 5000, 5500, and 6000 should be (respectively) 11, 12, 16, 19 degrees, with the RPM in between given intermediates of those values. It should in fact be a simple two point linear regression. Your actual timing advance at the first set of RPM mentioned are 8, 8, and 10 degrees of advance which indicate that you are still seeing significant timing retardation. It's a marked improvement from your first log, but you still need to go leaner.

Your O2 voltage also shows a .02V drop across the pull which further indicates there's a response.

My guess now is that you do in fact have 650cc injectors. If they were in fact 550's, you are now pulling enough fuel to where you should not have that much rich knock.

I would suggest you keep pulling fuel across the board. Under the assumption that they are 650cc injectors, you should ideally end up pulling 31% fuel. To be safe, I would say pull fuel in ~5% increments until you get to -26%, and then possibly go in 1% increments until you're satisfied. I would actually recommend getting a wideband or flow testing the injectors to do this in one step. You must realize that every pull you make involves forcing the engine to knock fairly significantly. You are getting 3 degrees minimum, 8 degrees or more maximum I would guess (this correlates to 8.499 counts minimum, 22.664 counts or more maximum). Then again this is all theory, but at least consider it.

 

[DSM-Franek]

Your calculated g/rev at 4852, 5368, and 5860 RPM are (respectively) 1.85, 1.92, 1.80 indicating that you are on the third highest timing map at these RPM levels, based on user zippyshoe's post here: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showpost.php?p=151280193&postcount=11

Your timing advance 4500, 5000, 5500, and 6000 should be (respectively) 11, 12, 16, 19 degrees, with the RPM in between given intermediates of those values. It should in fact be a simple two point linear regression. Your actual timing advance at the first set of RPM mentioned are 8, 8, and 10 degrees of advance which indicate that you are still seeing significant timing retardation. It's a marked improvement from your first log, but you still need to go leaner.

Your O2 voltage also shows a .02V drop across the pull which further indicates there's a response.

My guess now is that you do in fact have 650cc injectors. If they were in fact 550's, you are now pulling enough fuel to where you should not have that much rich knock.

I would suggest you keep pulling fuel across the board. Under the assumption that they are 650cc injectors, you should ideally end up pulling 31% fuel. To be safe, I would say pull fuel in ~5% increments until you get to -26%, and then possibly go in 1% increments until you're satisfied. I would actually recommend getting a wideband or flow testing the injectors to do this in one step. You must realize that every pull you make involves forcing the engine to knock fairly significantly. You are getting 3 degrees minimum, 8 degrees or more maximum I would guess (this correlates to 8.499 counts minimum, 22.664 counts or more maximum). Then again this is all theory, but at least consider it.

Jesus you know what your doing

What's your opinion on trying a log at 20psi with -18% accross the board?

Thanks alot!
-Frank

 

[2gGSX]

I would keep the boost as low as physically possible while you get this figured out. The more cylinder pressure (power) you make while knocking, the more chance for bad things to happen (e.g. melting pistons).

Aim for a healthy timing curve first, which would indicate no knock, before turning the boost up.

 

[DSM-Franek]

I would keep the boost as low as physically possible while you get this figured out. The more cylinder pressure (power) you make while knocking, the more chance for bad things to happen (e.g. melting pistons).

Aim for a healthy timing curve first, which would indicate no knock, before turning the boost up.

Good point. So maybe I should do a log at 15psi with -20% accross the board?

What do you think I should do?

Thanks for the help,
-Frank

 

[2gGSX]

I would really recommend getting a wideband on there to verify that you are getting rich knock.

In the situation that you do in fact have 550cc injectors and the knock is caused by something else, and you keep pulling fuel under the assumption that it is rich knock, you are going to end up blowing something up. This is the only reason I'd hesitate to tell you to keep pulling fuel.

If you are confident that there is nothing else which could cause this (skipped timing, boost leaks, etc), then you could keep pulling fuel and monitor your timing curve VERY closely for any change. If there is an improvement, then maybe you really do have 650cc injectors. If there is no change or even an increase in knock (switch to knocking due to being lean from pulling too much fuel), then get off the throttle immediately and you're back to square one.

It's up to you, but like I said above, the best choice is to somehow get access to a wideband, even for a few minutes (via a shop or from a friend).

 

[DSM-Franek]

Ok I decided to try another log.

This is -20% accross the board at 15psi creeping to 20psi at redline

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Thanks for all the help so far, any opinions and/or suggestions are greatly apreciated

-Frank

 

[2gGSX]

You are getting 10 degrees (or more) of timing pulled--you really need to stop making pulls, this is getting into real, clear detonation and you will compromise your engine by continuing to do these.

 

[DSM-Franek]

You are getting 10 degrees (or more) of timing pulled--you really need to stop making pulls, this is getting into real, clear detonation and you will compromise your engine by continuing to do these.

I agree 100% , just wanted to try that last log to see what was up. I just found that I also do have a decent boost leak at my compressor housing.

Does that log look lean to you? What do you think?

Thanks alot,
-Frank