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Somthing isn't meshing right with my car???

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19BLACKGST98

15+ Year Contributor
711
3
Nov 6, 2003
McKinney, Texas
Like the title says somthing just isn't meshing right with my car. Last July one of my forged pistons grenaded on me so I had another motor built with forged internals. Before the old built engine blew I was making 402whp. That was with a stock Intake manifold, stock exhaust manifold, big greddy FMIC on 93 oct.

Since the motor was getting built again I decided to add a few upgrades this is the updated list of all that is done:
(this set up produced 47 more whp Total: 449whp on 93oct + meth injection)
EDIT: All things marked in RED are upgrades since the last built engine.

1998 GST Mods:

Engine Mods-
Balance Shaft Eliminator kit
Gasket matched ported 2g head (with casting marks smoothed out)
FP2 cams
Adjustable Cam Gears
NGK plug wires and plugs
Crower Rods
Wiseco forged pistons (8.5:1)
FP3052 Turbo
Devils Own Meth injection kit: 2 DO10 Nozzles, 150psi Pump 70/30 mix (meth/water)
Energy suspention Poly motor mount inserts for the lower mounts. New oem mounts for the sides.

Tranny Mods-
TRE Stage 2.5 Transmission (LSD Insert)
ACT 2600 with sprung 6 puck (had street disk before new motor)
Fidanza light weight flywheel
SS Braided Clutch Line

Fuel System Mods-
KeyDiver dual image chip w/ socketed Eprom ECU
780cc Injectors
Walbro 255lph HP Fuel Pump (rewired)
Innavative wide band O2
Aeromotive AFPR

Intake Mods-
Dejon Tool 4" Intake pipe w/ filter
3" GM MAF with MAF-T (in the intake pipe not blow threw)
JM Fab intake manifold
75mm Throttle body
Huge custom FMIC w/ 3" upper pipe, 2.5" lower(replaced the big greddy kit)
HKS SSQV BOV
Greddy Profec b Spec II electronic boost controller

Exhaust Mods-
FP Exhaust Manifold w/ SS FP etched cover
SS Exhaust studs
FP SS 2.5" O2 housing
44mm Tail WG
3" N1 downpipe and exhaust (all restrictions removed with straight pipe added in there spots)

Suspension Mods-
Eiboch springs lower 1.5 inch's
Koni Yellows all around
Camber kit
Front strut tower brace
15" Drag brand 5 spoke rims in the front with Mickey Thompson DR's on them (26" tall)


Car is running terrible times at the track. I hope its just because the tranny doesnt quite feel broken in yet. I feel like I lose everything between shifts :(.

Any Ideas....anything look out of place or anything that I really need that I dont have?

EDIT: All things marked in RED are upgrades since the last built engine.

I also forgot to mention that before all of the recent upgrades I use to hit full boost by 4,000 rpms and now I dont hit full boost till 4,700 - 4,800 rpms. Do I just need a bigger turbo to justify all of the extra airflow mods?(3" upper pipe, smim with 75mm tb, fp race mani)
 
I've got a few questions...

This shouldn't affect anything, but why did you choose to do draw though on the MAF instead of blow through?

Is your BOV recirculated?

Are you just running the Jeff O. KeyDiver chip? If so, some additional fuel tuning and/or timing tuning would more than likely help.

How much boost are you running currently?

As far as upgrading to a bigger turbo. I don't think that should be a problem. The 3065 likes to flow a good bit, so the more free-flowing parts really shouldn't affect it that much.

BTW, what were your spool RPMs before you rebuilt and added the new mods? :talon:
 
I've got a few questions...

This shouldn't affect anything, but why did you choose to do draw though on the MAF instead of blow through? Because the GM maf was never ment to see boost...also with it setup like this I dont have to adjust my tune for any little weather change...my car runs much better since ive moved it.

Is your BOV recirculated? Yes
Are you just running the Jeff O. KeyDiver chip? If so, some additional fuel tuning and/or timing tuning would more than likely help. Currently I have a local guys chip in because i was recently dyno tuned...after the c16 tune I will send the keydiver chip back to reburn my tunes to the dual image chip..I also have an SAFCII and Maft T which is set to 0.

How much boost are you running currently? 26 - 28 psi
As far as upgrading to a bigger turbo. I don't think that should be a problem. The 3065 likes to flow a good bit, so the more free-flowing parts really shouldn't affect it that much. If I upgrade it wont be to anything smaller than an FP HTA DSM 82.
BTW, what were your spool RPMs before you rebuilt and added the new mods? :talon:
4,000 rpms for full boost before upgrades. currently 4700 - 4800rpms

I am on my phone so it was easier for me to answer the questions in your quote...read above.

fuel tuning: chip, safc, maf t
 
What exactly are these terrible times you are recording?

Have you given your clutch the proper break in time?

What do you mean by lose everything during shifting(does it bog, lose a ton of RPM, not build boost/rpm at WOT)?
 
At the 1/4 mile track the best time I ran was 13.3. I dont have alot of experiance on the track so when I was at the 1/8 mile I let my mechanic drive the car and the best he could get was 8.8 @83mph.
I broke the new tranny and the clutch in for 1500miles before I got into boost....the car now has about 2400 on the new tranny,clutch and motor. The clutch isnt dragging and I had fp check out my turbo and it is in great shape.
It is hard to get into gear fast at the track. I have a bb turbo yet I still lose all my power between shifts...i lose rpms and boost. hopefully changing to redline fluid will help.
 
It sounds like you need to figure out the mechanical issue with the tranny not engaging. Possibly work on your shifting. If you dropping more than 800rpms between shifts this could be a major issue. It would be nice to see a time slip to get an idea of your trap speeds and 60 foot times that will tell the tale.


Kolby
 
Ok I will see if I can find a few of them around the car when I get back home.

Sorry my phone likes to double post when I reply while im on it. Im not sure how it double posted about 30 min apart though.

Found one sitting on the counter. Sorry I dont have time to post more right now. I have finals all week.

5/6/2009 North Star Dragway 1/8mile track:

Reaction ---- .4089
60 FT -------- 2.0322
330 FT------- 5.9725
1/8 ET ------ 8.9666
1/8 MPH ---- 82.06


As you can see we were not worried about reaction time.
The driver of my car on this run has a 10.6 DSM and has alot of track experiance.

This run: 93 oct/ Meth injection 2 M10 nozzles with 70/30 mix (meth/water) @ 14* timing
 
No. It just got off of the dyno April 30th at 11:30 PM. Then on the track May 1st at 7:00pm...and on the track again on the 6th. Everything was fine...no knock what so ever. Hell we are running less than stock timing as it is. I wasn't loging during the runs but I was looking at the knock guage religiously and it never raised.

I thought it was just me messing things up thats why I wanted someone else to drive it for a few passes (4 total without me driving). Even with a good driver it was SLOW :(

The low level 330ish whp Challenger was putting down better time's/mph then I was and I have over 100whp on him on 93 oct.

Ok I had my fenders rolled today and my suspension messed with a little. While I was there I had some extra time so I dug my time slips and my dyno sheet...maybe they can shine some light on my problems. Also someone suggested that I get aftermarket springs and retainers and for me to put a 1g head on the car. They said that I have all this stuff on my car for more flow but my head is holding me back??? Any thoughts on that?

Anyways here's the sheet and I will post the Timeslip info under it:

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1/4 Mile track
R/T .......1.034
60 ft......3.075
330.......7.254
1/8.......10.298
MPH......80.38
1000.....12.839
1/4.......14.895
MPH......110.10
I think that was my first time ever down the track...or one of the times that I missed 3rd???
Best I ran was a 13.3 at around 110mph but I cant find that slip.

1/8th mile track:
Reaction---.8716
60ft---------2.3619
330ft-------6.2072
1/8th ET---9.2665
1/8 MPH---80.66


I had the Tranny fluid changed today to Motul 75 90. On my way home I was in traffic so I didnt really get a chance to get on it and see if I felt a diffrence. Im going to the track tomorrow so I will post results when I get back.

Edit: Did I mention that my car only weighs 2,777 Lbs also.
 
Your R/T is almost a full second and the 60 ft times could be lower. I would say its all in the 60ft still. Putting down those numbers you should be dipping into the 12's


Kolby
 
what dyno were you on ? Dyno Jet

what boost level? 27ish

fwd or awd ?
FWD GST

New best in the 1/8 tonight for my car:
RT--------.4259
60FT------2.1669
330Ft-----5.7478
1/8 ET----8.6655
1/8Mph---84.54

Should see alot of improvement at the track next week when I get a whole new shifter and assembly put in. Mine is really loose and it makes it feel real notchy when shifting.
 
If you have a stock shifter, shift cable bushings, and motor mounts since I dont see them in the list, then it's no wonder you feel like your losing everything between shifts. A short throw will make for quicker shifts, solid bushing will give better shift response, and better mounts will help get power to the ground and also make for smoother shifts since the tranny won't be flopping around on you as much.
 
Check the HOW TO or TECH forums. Theres a wicked DIY mod for the 2g manuals that solves the "sloppy" shifting. He used ball and bearing pivot joints to replace the nylon and rubber bushings. The OP stated it made a huge difference on shifting/driveability.

This First one takes the cake!
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-parts-fabrication/262525-building-heim-joint-shifter.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...w-make-your-own-shifter-cable-stiffeners.html

Heres a link on DIY short shifter 5 star rating mind you
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-drivetrain/199960-diy-short-throw.html

another DIY for improvement
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-drivetrain/182819-how-make-shifting-easier.html


Kolby
 
If you have a stock shifter, shift cable bushings, and motor mounts since I dont see them in the list, then it's no wonder you feel like your losing everything between shifts. A short throw will make for quicker shifts, solid bushing will give better shift response, and better mounts will help get power to the ground and also make for smoother shifts since the tranny won't be flopping around on you as much.

When I bought the car it allready had the short throw (im sure the most shitty one you can get). We are removing that shifter and replacing it with a stock one. We put in the kit that is supposed to tighten everything up and it imporved the sloppy loose fealing alot but made if fill more notchy(probably due to some modding to the short throw that had to be done). I have poly inserts in the two lower mounts and new stockers on the side since my other side mounts were blown (I will add them to my profile and list thanks)
Check the HOW TO or TECH forums. Theres a wicked DIY mod for the 2g manuals that solves the "sloppy" shifting. He used ball and bearing pivot joints to replace the nylon and rubber bushings. The OP stated it made a huge difference on shifting/driveability.

This First one takes the cake!
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-parts-fabrication/262525-building-heim-joint-shifter.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...w-make-your-own-shifter-cable-stiffeners.html

Heres a link on DIY short shifter 5 star rating mind you
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-drivetrain/199960-diy-short-throw.html

another DIY for improvement
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-drivetrain/182819-how-make-shifting-easier.html


Kolby

Thanks for all of the info. I will look into it.

EDIT: The last one on your list has alerady been taken care of.
 
Update:

Well I decided to change/upgrade my set up again even though I never got the last set up where it needed to be. I was running to much water/meth...I will go down to about 15gph and run 100% meth or go to 12gph and run a 80/20 mix. I upgraded my turbo to a 70 lb/min turbo so I will need to purchase 850cc injectors or bigger now (that should warrant the 75mm throttle body/JMF SMIM and 3" intercooler piping that I already have on the car). I am buying some smaller Drag radials since I was finishing the 1/4 mile at the top of 3rd gear. I added a spring to my wastgate so I can run about 40psi now instead of just 30. I am also switching my FP2 cams to F4R's with behive springs...I will be reving to 8,500ish rpms now instead of 7,500. Hopfully the clutch will last a month or so until I can get a twin disk.

Edit: I should have the turbo either this Thursday or Friday :)
 
Ok I'm bringing this thread back since I've got a little bit of extra cash to mess with the car. I now have an fp3082hta and some t1 saturated 1,000cc injectors. The car hits the dyno Tuesday.

Edit: my mod list in my profile is current. My injectors will be installed before it goes to the dyno. I still have the big drag radials and fp2 cams.
 
The problem is that chip. I used to run one back in the day, and I dropped almost a full second off my 1/4 mi by adding dsmlink v2.5 a few years back. I trapped 133mph on the gt3082r (non-hta) with a clutch that slipped in 3rd and 4th gear (awd).

The chip is nice and all, but how do you dyno tune a car that isn't really tuneable?

Oh, and BTW, you can have the best John Force reaction time in the world, your ET will remain the same.
 
I personally cant tune anything :). I have my car tuned by my mechanic. If I was going to upgrade I would go with ECMlink (I think that what its called). I think boost by gear would do wonders for a FWD. I will see how it does Tuesday and if I am very disappointed ill spend the rest of my money on that.

The chip is nice and all, but how do you dyno tune a car that isn't really tuneable?

My mechanic can program the chips also. He adjust with the Safc then reburns a chip. Last time my car was on the dyno he re burn the chip a ton of times.
 
I personally cant tune anything :). I have my car tuned by my mechanic. If I was going to upgrade I would go with ECMlink (I think that what its called). I think boost by gear would do wonders for a FWD. I will see how it does Tuesday and if I am very disappointed ill spend the rest of my money on that.



My mechanic can program the chips also. He adjust with the Safc then reburns a chip. Last time my car was on the dyno he re burn the chip a ton of times.

That isnt tuning. You can make alot more power on dsmlink. Want to know how I know? Take a look at your timeslips. It says it all. You have the hardware to be fast, but you're being held back and running 14b times.
 
The chip is nice and all, but how do you dyno tune a car that isn't really tuneable?

An Ostrich Emulator... Tune, Burn chip, forget it... Use emulator to tune other cars Profit :D

Tuning is tuning regardless of the end means to accomplish it...:thumb:
 
An Ostrich Emulator... Tune, Burn chip, forget it... Use emulator to tune other cars Profit :D

Tuning is tuning regardless of the end means to accomplish it...:thumb:

Yeah, its working out real good for him. Sure, its a "tune", but you're still going to get way more with dsmlink. Take a look at his modlist. He needs dsmlink at the very least.

Its very cost efficient too when dyno tuning can be $150/hr. :p
 
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