2.4 Liter G4CS build thread

[Atuca]

Not much to say at this point, but this will be my thread for my first engine build, and first 2.4 stroked engine. I am not a pro and will be doing alot of research on the engine as I go along.

So far all i have gathered is a G4CS short block with the stock internals to the motor still in there

I got:

Wiseco .020 over pistons
Eagle rods and arp bolts


and yea that is it for the new block. Alot of the parts will be coming from my current motor, such as the hks 272s in my current motor; I plan on swapping those out.

I am currently looking for input on the turbo in another thread, but looking mainly to road race, so torque and low end power is my goal here, not top end HP numbers.

Engine specific questions I'd like to put here. I am thinking I should run a 6 bolt head, although currently I am running a stock 2g intake manifold. I know it is debated and people say it is up to me. I guess the world will never know.

As for head gaskets. I am told I need a head gasket from a 93 2.4 DLHC galant, but what brand/type?

BSE kit with stubby shaft - I have no idea what that is, but I'm told I need it.

ARP main studs, ARP head studs - seems straight foward, I've heard alot of good things about ARP bolts.

Crank bearings - I have no idea here where to go or what brand, or even what they are tbh.

Rod Bearings - ^^ same story

1.6L dohc t-belt crank pulley spacer (this goes behind the t-belt crank pulley to replace the BS crank pulley) - I have no idea what he's talking about.

Timing belt from 2.4 DOHC Galant - What year though?

T-B tensioner - again no idea here yet.

T-B Idler puley

T-B tensioner pulley


Other than that, I need a head, a lower gasket kit, and upper gasket kit. What else do I need to go shopping for or add to my list? My current 7 bolt motor has everything else I will need, except for a new flywheel (can view my profile)

With only 30k on the rebuilt 2.0, think I can use some parts off of it? or am I better off trying to sell my stock long block for a couple hundred bucks?

This is the begining of what I think is going to be alot of fun. I am taking my car off the streets and am buying a new DD to take its place. Full track car

and now for the pics

 

[delta448]

I am currently looking for input on the turbo in another thread, but looking mainly to road race, so torque and low end power is my goal here, not top end HP numbers.

Engine specific questions I'd like to put here. I am thinking I should run a 6 bolt head, although currently I am running a stock 2g intake manifold. I know it is debated and people say it is up to me. I guess the world will never know.

Use your current 2G head. It is better designed for low and mid rpm range use. The 1G heads flow more air at full tilt, but they carry less air velocity at low engine speeds, which is critical to optimal low end performance. You might consider purchasing an Evo 3 intake manifold, thread on it here.

As for head gaskets. I am told I need a head gasket from a 93 2.4 DLHC galant, but what brand/type?

I recommend a Multi Layer Steel (MLS) gasket in the correct bore size. Either Mitsubishi or Cometic, the rest are overpriced.

BSE kit with stubby shaft - I have no idea what that is, but I'm told I need it.

Balance Shaft Elimination kit. Pretty self explanatory, but it allows removal of the two weighted internal shafts in the block that are designed to reduce vibration. They aren't needed and can sometimes lead to serious problems.

Crank bearings - I have no idea here where to go or what brand, or even what they are tbh.

Rod Bearings - ^^ same story

ACL brand's "Race" series of bearings are generally considered the best since Clevite changed their old 77 series.

Main and rod bearings are curved metal parts that are placed between the main girdle and the crankshaft, or between the crankshaft and the large end of the connecting rod. They have a softer outer layer that absorbs and embeds metal pieces to prevent wear. They also bear loads placed on the rods, crank and block... sort of... this is actually also a major task of the engine oil.

Timing belt from 2.4 DOHC Galant - What year though?

This one. You don't necessarily need 4G64 DOHC cam gears however, as is mentioned there.

T-B tensioner - again no idea here yet.

T-B Idler puley

T-B tensioner pulley

Use only OEM parts here, your 2.0 parts will work fine as long as they are in good shape.

 

[snowborder714]

As for head gaskets. I am told I need a head gasket from a 93 2.4 DLHC galant, but what brand/type?

Another option other than the Cometic:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/stroker-tech/315776-new-perma-torque-plus-hg.html

BSE kit with stubby shaft - I have no idea what that is, but I'm told I need it.

MD103722 - Front Balance shaft bearing
MD040597 - Rear Balance shaft bearing
MD092785 - Balance shaft cap
MD098626 - Balance shaft stub
MD128107 - Balance shaft spacer

These are the same parts as this kit.

1.6L dohc t-belt crank pulley spacer (this goes behind the t-belt crank pulley to replace the BS crank pulley) - I have no idea what he's talking about.

Included in the parts list above.

T-B tensioner - again no idea here yet.
T-B Idler puley
T-B tensioner pulley

It's just like you're building a 6 bolt.


And here's a few links to get you started.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...9472-2g-2-4l-4g64-7-bolt-bottom-end-swap.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/stroker-tech/100677-looking-4g64-g4cs-answers-look-here.html
4G63 to 4G64 swap and build up

 

[blazebolt]

Hey Philip. Good luck with the build. I'm in the middle of building my 2.3L engine and picking up the block and head from Rob's machine shop today. Are you going to be assembling it yourself?

 

[Evan K.]

A few things to consider for your build.

I would recommend a main girdle for your bearing caps. This will help to keep your main bearings happy as you bomb around the track. The lack of a main girdle in the G4CS can lead to fretting of the main bearings over time.

To make your conversion to 6 bolt easier you might want to consider the 6 bolt crank angle sensor adapter that Kiggly Racing offers.

I plan on getting these from Kiggly as soon as my tax refund comes through in a few weeks. Take a look for yourself.

Kiggly Racing LLC : Home

 

[Atuca]

Hey Philip. Good luck with the build. I'm in the middle of building my 2.3L engine and picking up the block and head from Rob's machine shop today. Are you going to be assembling it yourself?

Assembling? Yes. I was told bout Rob's machine shop. That is the same FFtech uses right? I really want this project to be where I have my hands on everything. I wish this wasn't my first build, but I feel comfortable enough with the basics that unless I do this build, I will never understand the advanced topics.

I am being very open about my n00bnes though so feel free to come up north Blazebolt

Things like Evan mentioned I never even heard of, so this is why the thread is here.

I didn't realize what a BSE was, but knowing the acrynom was half the battle . I know on my 2.0 the Balanace shafts were removed, could I reuse that kit? There was a battle on the forums wether or not to have balance shafts or not in the 2.4.

I think I need to understand if that is ok. My engine has been DD 30k miles, not a day at the track and only redline has been while tuning and maybe once a week there after when mesing around. It was built by FFtech, so lets go on the assumtion is was done right.

I also have read people using 4g64 cranks in their g4cs. If i read that correctly, what are the pros and cons of using the stock g4cs crank in my build. I thought that was half the battle getting the g4cs crank, the other being the block.


And what steps should I take now? I don't even have bolts to get my engine on my new harbor freight 1000lbs engine stand. Don't know what size. I figure I should get 12.9 grade bolts, but I'll have to search the size to use.

once I get it up there, do I just start undoing bolts and getting the stock internals out of it? or should I leave that to a machine shop. The machine shops does what exactly? Hot tank (cleans) resurfaces the top of the block so it is flat for head gasket, and than balances the crank, right?

Do i need to have my wiseco pistons or eagle rods rebalanced or anything? I think i read they are supposed to be from the factory, but are not always done 100% correct.

Bascily, what should I be doing this weekend, and what parts should I look to be buying. Is everyone in agreement a 7 bolt head is best for torque/low/mid range power in a 2.4 motor?

 

[snowborder714]

Things like Evan mentioned I never even heard of, so this is why the thread is here.

Start reading the threads I posted and you'll learn. There are certain stipulations on when you can use the Kiggly main girdle, so make sure you don't do any work to the block before doing the research.

I didn't realize what a BSE was, but knowing the acrynom was half the battle . I know on my 2.0 the Balanace shafts were removed, could I reuse that kit?

For as cheap as it is, I wouldn't. You run the risk of possibly ruining one of the bearings when trying to remove them, or the plug.

Another thing to think about is whether you want oil squirters or not. If yes, you'll have to get the block machined for them.

 

[Atuca]

The oil squirters were removed in my 2.0 block.

reasons for that are beyond me, but I know they are not there. If they are there they can fail, and if they are not there, can't fail. I think that was the reasoning explained to me.

 

[snowborder714]

I would say to do some more research on that, as that seems like a semi-poor reason to base your decision off of. Just for an example, Kiggly always runs oil squirters.

 

[Atuca]

No such thing as a cookie cutter engine when you build yourself a 2.4 eh?

I know there will be alot of research needed, and am not in a rush. I just want it to be clear all of my descions are based off of the info off these forums. My only "IRL" friends that tune DSMs are from these forums, killadsm and blazebolt, and we see each other at the union city meets, thats about it. So that is why I am naive as I appear.


I will look into the oil squirter thing, and maybe see why FFtech decided to remove them.

Thanks Brian

 

[blazebolt]

Yes Rob's is where FFTEC sends their engines. He's a good guy. When you drop off your engine make sure to give him the specs you want done to it and specify that you want the bore/hone done with a girdle.

They have 7 bolt heads on 1G's. You want to use a 2G head and Intake Manifold (or EVO as suggested) for better low end torque. You might need to open up the holes bigger. I'm not sure since you are using a different block than me.

Oil squirters aren't needed for forged pistons and can cause problems which is typically why they're removed.

 

[Atuca]

Spent yesterday tearing down the stock g4cs block.

To start off. To get the engine on the Harbor Freight engine stand, you will need:

2x M10x1.25x80mm hex bolts
2x m10x1.25x70mm hex bolts

the two shorter 70 mm bolts go on the top of the tranny side of the block, the two longer 80 mm bolts go on the bottom half. I mounted the bracket ont he block before trying to get it up in the engine stand. I than used multi purpose white grease to lubercate the engine mount cylinder. That will help to rotate the block as you build on it and make it heavier.

Taking everything out of the block was pretty straight foward. Took off the bolts holding the main caps on. They popped out with a little effort once all the bolts were removed. on a g4cs block, there are single caps all accross the block, meaning there are 5 caps, not connected like on a 4g63.

I than took the nuts off the pistons and pushed them through the top of the block (since i was working with the engine upside down I just pushed them down and out). At this point I got the side ?crankshaft seal? the thing where the flywheel bolts to. After that, the crank just popped out with a little tug.



Today (well yesterday as of an hour ago) I went to pick and pull and got the following:

6 bolt oil pan complete with 20 mounting screws

oil strainer

6 bolt flywheel cover (the little metal plate that covers the bottom part of the tranny that extends past the engine)

1g Green top CAS (i am told black top out of a 94 dsm is the best, but I don't know really why. research if you like. Either way, I am going to run a 1g head and needed a CAS)

6 bolt oil dip stick (I don't know if the 6 bolt dip stick is different or not, but I grabbed one anyways


when I got home I cleaned everything up, and came accross one issue. I think I am just going to use a spacer, unless anyone else knows of another dip stick that does work. I guess the g4cs dip stick would work, but than is alot of assuming

Than I got a closer look at my block today and noticed a few weird things on my block. there was no balance shaft in my block, but yet it had studs screwed into it. What is that all about? And how bout the other plug that has white stuff dripping from it. what is that all about?

Here are the pics, more updates as the build continues this weekend. Feel free to suggest anything I might need, I am really noob and just trying to act like I know what i am doing as I go along.

 

[Evan K.]

Don't forget to have the machine shop weld on a bung for your knock sensor.

 

[Dallas J]

That bolt with the white stuff has a little screw on the back side of it that stops the balance shaft from coming out IIRC. If your Balance shaft has already been pulled out make sure they installed the balance shaft bearing seals turned so they block the oil passage.

 

[Atuca]

any ideas on the oil dip stick?

and Evan, do I really need a girdle? Wouldn't buying arp main cap bolts be enough?

 

[delta448]

6 bolt oil dip stick (I don't know if the 6 bolt dip stick is different or not, but I grabbed one anyways


when I got home I cleaned everything up, and came accross one issue. I think I am just going to use a spacer, unless anyone else knows of another dip stick that does work. I guess the g4cs dip stick would work, but than is alot of assuming

Than I got a closer look at my block today and noticed a few weird things on my block. there was no balance shaft in my block, but yet it had studs screwed into it. What is that all about? And how bout the other plug that has white stuff dripping from it. what is that all about?

The dipstick tube and dipstick that were originally on the block should be used if at all possible. Measure both tubes and dipsticks and double check.

If there is no difference in the length of the dipsticks and no difference in the length of the tubes use the G4CS pieces.

If there is a difference in the length of the dipsticks and not a difference in the length of the tubes, use the 6 bolt dipstick in the G4CS tube.

If the tubes aren't the same length, but the dipsticks are, use either dipstick and the 6 bolt tube.

If niether tubes or dipsticks are the same, you'll have to measure the amount of the dipstick protruding from the 6 bolt parts with the stick in the tube and re-mark the G4CS stick so the marks are the same depth into the pan as the 6 bolt stick would be in the 6 bolt's pan. Assuming that the boss for the tube is cast the same distance from the pan on both engines, -which it should be since we're talking about early engines.

Sorry, I can't explain it simpler than that, and yes I know it's confusing...

That bolt with the white stuff has a little screw on the back side of it that stops the balance shaft from coming out IIRC. If your Balance shaft has already been pulled out make sure they installed the balance shaft bearing seals turned so they block the oil passage.

It doesn't keep the shaft from coming out persay, and there's no little screw on the back of it as far as I know. I'm fairly certain that bolt plugs the access hole that allows you to insert a tool or dowel to hold the rear balance shaft from turning, which allows you to unbolt the oil pump driven gear from the front end of the shaft.

 

[Atuca]

I don't have the g4cs dip stick, it was pretty much a bear block with some internals left in it.

so... what do i do now?

 

[delta448]

You could always just install the pieces you have and wait until the engine is completely assembled to re-mark the dipstick if it actually needs remarking. Just fill the engine with about 1 quart of oil and let it sit for an hour or so and then mark the dipstick wherever the oil level is for the low mark. Then put in the other 3 quarts, wait an hour and mark a full line. Rudimentary, but likely effective enough.

 

[EDM95]

How much was that stand?

 

[Evan K.]

The girdle helps to keep the main bearings from fretting. This is a problem more common with the 100mm cranks. I think it's cheap insurance for $150.00. It's not mandatory just a good idea. Call Sean over at Full Function and ask his advice. He's got way more experience at this than me. PM me and I'll give you my cell and we can talk.

 

[Atuca]

How much was that stand?

49.99 on sale at harbor freight til 5/11/09

-----

Evan and I talked on the phone and figured out the spacing issue on the dip stick is the power steering pump bracket goes between the there, filling that space in.

I just ordered a 1990 oil filter housing that will allow me to run an air cooled oil intercooler, which is much better for cooling then water cooled.

I think though that I could take my block to the machine shop. Blazebolt, you should probably come up to my house, make a 1g head appear, and give me the ok to take it to the machine shop.

I can't find any info weather or not people run a main girdle, but I have found people saying the g4cs has stronger main caps than the 4g63. So.... meh. I never built an engine to know how important having one is. Evan says get one, anyone else say otherwise?

I guess now I just gotta find out how to build/assemble an engine thread . I do have a list of parts from both blazebolt and Evan, so between the two I should have all parts covered.

More pics soon as the build continues!

 

[Atuca]

Boy did I get lucky today. Friend of mine had a 1g laying around and I figured I ask him whats up. I ended up coming home with a bunch os parts that would have been very hard to get all in one place.

I didn't get a chance to get them all cleaned up, that tomorrow's project, but here at least are the before pictures!

Got a '90 water line
new water pump (i think)
coolant housing, lower radiator hose
1g head!! - on the head, I got a bunch of other connectors and such with a turbo intake manifold. Do i need them?
another CAS and a sensor wiring harness
Grabbed the 14b and o2 housing
grabbed the knock sensor
random brackets and plates and stuff on the timing belt side.

What do you guys think, the water pump looks new, would you use it? and how about that coolant sensor housing, it looks pretty beat up.

The 1g Head has all the caps, but they were all removed. My friend (and I for that matter) didn't know it mattered if the caps came off. I got them all in a plastic bag and I guess I will have ot have them machined and placed back on. Does anyone have any idea how much that will cost? And if oversizing the head valve 1mm is worth the money? How bout springs, do I need to upgrade if I am building a stroker that won't be reving to the moon? Or is this a place I can save some money?

Let me know guys; I promise I am more n00b than you!

 

[blazebolt]

Get a new water pump and you could try to clean up that thermostat housing, but definitely get a new thermostat and seals.

If you are concerned about low end power then you want to stay with standard size valves. Oversize is for more topend. You don't need to get the caps on the head machined unless they are from another head or damaged. You should be fine on stock springs, but as I told you before the EVO springs/retainers are a cheap upgrade (they are really light too).

Also, that knock sensor is useless for you as you should be using a 2G knock sensor. Same goes for the 1G coil pack

 

[turbosax2]

You can use the 1g coil pack. Easier than using the 2g coil pack because it bolts right into the intake mani nicely.

 

[Atuca]

blazebolt, didn't you give me some mumbo jumbo about if the caps were taken out of order i had to get it remachined?

the best i got now is he kept them and the rockers in two bags marked intake and exhaust side, along with bolts ect.

you are saying that is enough? if so i can head to the machine shop now right?