front is uneven after Tokico Illuminas

[mitsubishi9908]

I installed the kit and my drivers side front looks a lot lower than the passenger side. The drivers side tire is pretty much inside the fender you know why this could be?

It has no camber kit on it yet! It will be installed tomorrow along with an alignment will this cure the problem?

 

[97gst_spyder]

It sat fine with stock struts? Are you sure the springs are sitting the same on each side? Did you check for any bent suspension parts?

 

[my dreamt dsm]

Front and back struts have different pressure. Are you sure you didn't put the back in the front?
Just a guess

 

[PieEyedPiper]

It's normal.

 

[skye]

Mine looked that way also, I switched to KYB AGX's when my Tokico's died.

 

[mitsubishi9908]

It sat fine with stock struts? Are you sure the springs are sitting the same on each side? Did you check for any bent suspension parts?

yes it sat fine with stock suspension. what do you mean by same side on each wheel?

Front and back struts have different pressure. Are you sure you didn't put the back in the front?
Just a guess

only the front fit the front and back fit the back. are the springs are they the same?

It's normal.

my drivers side is approximately 2" lower than passenger side? normal?

Mine looked that way also, I switched to KYB AGX's when my Tokico's died.

how much lower was your one side from the other?

 

[97gst_spyder]

Something is bent. Or a spring is not seated correctly.

 

[skye]

how much lower was your one side from the other?

definately not that much of a difference, you sure you didn't break something or do something incorrectly?

 

[KiNg MaRtY]

I have heard of one side being a little higher than the other but 2" is way too much of a difference. Make sure that top hat is also in the correct position

 

[daren_p]

Make sure everything is seated & installed correctly. Verify all the spring isolators (rubber things ontop of the springs) are in good shape as they can wear out. When are you checking the height& is it always like this? If you come into your drive way & your always making a turn in the same direction or your coming up a hill etc., the sway bar will load on side of the suspension. So one side will look higher then the other. Best way to check is go for a drive or straight road (with no traffic), do a bunch of weeves to unload the suspension & drive straight for a descent amount of time. Then coast to a stop (breaking can load the suspension un-even as well) & check all the ride heights.

It is typical that the drivers side sit lower in our cars (way engine is mounted, its heavier then the tranny, etc) but it shouldn't be 2" difference drivers to pass (I use to run a Tokico setup & it was fine). Though if you combine loaded suspension with worn isolators, you could see that kind of difference.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Make sure everything is seated & installed correctly. Verify all the spring isolators (rubber things ontop of the springs) are in good shape as they can wear out. When are you checking the height& is it always like this? If you come into your drive way & your always making a turn in the same direction or your coming up a hill etc., the sway bar will load on side of the suspension. So one side will look higher then the other. Best way to check is go for a drive or straight road (with no traffic), do a bunch of weeves to unload the suspension & drive straight for a descent amount of time. Then coast to a stop (breaking can load the suspension un-even as well) & check all the ride heights.

It is typical that the drivers side sit lower in our cars (way engine is mounted, its heavier then the tranny, etc) but it shouldn't be 2" difference drivers to pass (I use to run a Tokico setup & it was fine). Though if you combine loaded suspension with worn isolators, you could see that kind of difference.

Correct in every sense, except that I don't believe that the weight distribution motor vs. tranny is the sole cause of the "listing". But it is a reasonable thought and it surely doesn't help the issue.

"...on my 2g I used to have some lopp-sidedness going on and I was interested in spring spacers to correct the isssue. Defiant calls it "listing" and both Jtoby and Defiant agree that 2g's naturally seem to lean to the left when lowered.

I suffered with this until I installed my SPC upper control arms. Now my 2 front wheels have less than 1/8" difference in ride height. This also changed my rears, having balanced the fronts, it brought the rears in line to less than 1/4" difference in ride height. I find this about as perfect as its going to get. Even with GC's I doutb I could improve much on that." - PieEyedPiper

It is not at all clear why, by 2Gs seem to list more to the left as they are lowered. There are two solutions: adjustable perches (a la coilover kits) or putting some kind of spacer above the left front spring. Either way, you really want to do this first. Then see where you are in terms of camber and start thinking about how you might change it.

In general, here is the order of dealing with alignments. First you get the car level (or corner-weighted). Then you set camber (and caster, if adjustable). Finally, you set toe. This sequence applies to modifications, as well as alignments at a shop. Every time you change something early on the list, you have to re-do all of the other items that are lower on the list from scratch. That's why I say get the car level before you worry about flipping the left compression-arm bushing or setting camber."

- Jtoby

"I don't know what causes it. I had a theory (involving the compression-arm bushing), but it didn't survive direct contact with data. All I was trying to get across is how the amount by which the shock's shaft is extended through the top plate doesn't play a role; that fixing the bushing was something that needed to be done, but would not solve the original, listing problem.

More than half of all DSMs that I've seen list to the left. If these cars were testicles, I would now mention how sperm needs to be kept at a certain temperature and that the blood enters the scrotum on one side, such that uneven heights are required for maximum potency. But DSMs are only "the balls" in a metaphorical sense. So I must default to saying that I have no effing idea (where "effing," for once, seems quite appropriate)."

- Jtoby

From my own experience the difference must lie in control arm geometry after the car is lower. Replacing my stock upper A-arms with the SPC units solved this completely. This worked for me, not to be confused with gospel.

 

[mitsubishi9908]

Okay i took another look at it and one of the springs was switched with one in the back. put the car down and the same thing ! my drivers side tire is pretty much sitting in my fender. all my control arms are good. i bought the kit used bit it worked great on the other car. could it be a bad spring/shock set up??

 

[97gst_spyder]

Pics? Are you 100% sure the ground is level where you do your work and look at it? Have you driven it around at all to make everything settle in?

 

[mitsubishi9908]

i have not driven it after but it does not make sense that it could lift up?

 

[97gst_spyder]

Did you measure the springs, then the struts, then them together off the car?

 

[mitsubishi9908]

Did you measure the springs, then the struts, then them together off the car?

measure what?

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Pictures will help. Please post some.
Also, so I can get a better idea of just how big of a difference it is between wheels, can you take a tape measure and measure from the center of the wheel to the fender on all 4 wheels and post the results? Try to be accurate.

I'm just having a hard time envisioning where an entire 2 inches is going. I suspect that its substantially less - but that's what the tape measure is for.

 

[mitsubishi9908]

i measured from where the tire meets the rim and got

DR: 4.25"
PR: 3.75"
PF: 2.75"
DF: 2.25"

it still needs an alignment but it should not be this far off before i take it there. i KNOW that i installed it correctly. i have taken it off three times now and same time each time.

i drove it maybe ten miles and the tire was hitting the fender you can see it in the pictures it caused it to bulge out. UGH

 

[noonan98turbo]

Wow thats pretty bad..I also have tokico illumina's and the rear passenger side does sit a bit higher than the rest but nothing as bad as yours.

 

[97gst_spyder]

My car is sitting just like yours but with stock stuff...hmmm. Has you car been side swiped, mine was, busted headlight, wheel bearing, the whole side was bondo'ed too.


Added: For the front end, have you made sure that the bottom seat of the struts are all the way down, where it goes into the sleeve?

 

[mitsubishi9908]

[QUOTE


Added: For the front end, have you made sure that the bottom seat of the struts are all the way down, where it goes into the sleeve?[/QUOTE]

yes i have and if it was not all they way down wouldn't that just cause it to go lower?

 

[97gst_spyder]

Yea, but maybe the passanger side wasn't all the way down. And that maybe why that side is higher?

 

[mitsubishi9908]

update i tried swaping out the two front ones for each other and the same result. ugh. something with the drivers front then.

 

[97gst_spyder]

They sell a full front suspension kit ebay..

SUSPENSION TALON SEBRING GALANT ECLIPSE 94-00 TIE BALL:eBay Motors (item 390018165641 end time Nov-13-09 05:27:09 PST)

 

[PieEyedPiper]

i measured from where the tire meets the rim and got

DR: 4.25"
PR: 3.75"
PF: 2.75"
DF: 2.25"

it still needs an alignment but it should not be this far off before i take it there. i KNOW that i installed it correctly. i have taken it off three times now and same time each time.

i drove it maybe ten miles and the tire was hitting the fender you can see it in the pictures it caused it to bulge out. UGH

Ok, so the difference is around .5", which seems reasonable (even optimistic) given what we know about lowering a 2g

I think both sides are absurdly low and that it is quite possible the difference in the rears is being caused by the lop-sided front.

My opinion is that you could have any combination of the below:
a) damaged suspension components
b) severely worn springs
c) they're sportlines and not prokits
d) improper installation, maybe a bushing or two are missing or just upside down?

The above, and the later, might not come as news to you, but it helps to be organized and objective.

I'm sorry you've been swapping suspension parts, tediously, for the last while but if you're not going to take it to a shop to figure this out you're going to have to pull it apart again and triple check everything unless you can visually see a bent suspension arm or a shredded bushing in one of the arms.
Just take it real slow, even though you're a pro at it by now, check the diagrams of all the washers and bushings involved and make sure yours match the orientation and position indicated. Also double check the part numbers of the springs to ensure that they are what they're supposed to be, they are where and that they are of equal height.
You might also remove the upper A-arm for inspection.

Some pics of the process and your equipment when it's off the car would help us help you too, if there was something worth seeing.

Good job on the pics above, I have to admit, you really weren't joking about how low the car is. Since I not only have the same car but the exact same suspension I'm at a loss of explanation.

Oh, and about the eBay control arm set.. don't do it. Find your problem before you throw eBay parts at it. I have experience with some of those exact same parts and the boots cracked prematurely and failure is inevitable.

Keep us posted and don't get discouraged.