2G 2GNT New Suspension & Steering. Alignment Question

[1BadRS]

I have all new control arms (upper, lateral, and compression), and sway bar end links. New Tokico HP shocks which will pair with the stock springs. Lastly, new inner and outter tie rod ends.

What I would like to know is if changing everything but the steering parts (inner & outter) tie rods ends are going to affect my alignment? I would like to do this in 2 stages if possible and install everything but the steering parts then the following week do the steering stuff and bring it in for an alignment.

If the suspension stuff will change alignment specs I'll do it all at once and then bring it in for the alignment. I'm just trying to work this little job into my crazy schedule.

Thanks

 

[wret]

What I would like to know is if changing everything but the steering parts (inner & outter) tie rods ends are going to affect my alignment?

Yes. Maybe.
I recommend checking the alignment every time a component such as a control arm is replaced. I don't trust that the production tolerances of the control arms are sufficiently tight enough not to affect alignment a small amount. When replacing several pieces at once, you may kind of average things out but the tolerances may also stack up to make a significant change in your alignment geometry. Differences should be slight, so you should be okay driving around for a while until you get everything done.

 

[asexton6969]

Yes, it can BUT It's not for sure everytime. However what Wret said is high suggested. Whenever you changed anything in the front end have the alignment check. Things that for sure change alignment: Inner and Outer Tie Rods, Struts!! They make magnetic camber gauges which help when reinstalling but still you will need an alignment.

Qualifications: Technician II, Sears Auto Center (I don't know everything but I know a fair amount)

 

[jtmcinder]

Why is changing the struts on a double-wishbone car "sure" to change the alignment?

- Jtoby

 

[asexton6969]

Typically changes camber, I've seen camber being changed due to strut bars. I'm not saying it always changes, but it has the potential to. Either way, its still a good idea to have your alignment checked. Hell, most places will actually check it free.

 

[Locke]

Typically changes camber, I've seen camber being changed due to strut bars. I'm not saying it always changes, but it has the potential to. Either way, its still a good idea to have your alignment checked. Hell, most places will actually check it free.

As Jtoby mentioned:

Why is changing the struts on a double-wishbone car "sure" to change the alignment?

On McPherson strut setups, the camber and caster are located by it's upper mount. On Double Wishbone and Multi-link suspensions, the caster and camber is located by the upper control arm. An overly extended or retracted strut tower brace may flex the entire tower, potentially causing minor (within measurement error) unintentional changes to camber.

 

[asexton6969]

Another thing I should mention to the original poster is there are ways to install some items while being able to minimally change your alignment. Some people have been known to count threads on tie rods to get it as close as possible. Personally have never done it, but I have had hundreds of customer who have. Camber gauges will allow you to replace the strut to a nearly identical spot it was in before removal. Now in our cars, they are more unlikely to be need but other vehicles it could serve you well.

When I wrote in my first post I was being more general to all vehicles rather than to DSM's. I apologize for not being more specific, but thank you for catching my mishap.

Andrew

 

[jtmcinder]

Hm. For the archives: the maximum amount by which a mis-installed strut bar could alter camber on a 2G is probably within measurement error, and the only way for new struts to alter camber would be through a change in ride-height, which will only happen if the perches are not at the same location and/or you switch from dead shocks to new high-pressure gas shocks.

In general, you do not need an alignment if all you did was swap shocks on a 2G. And I've never heard of a place that will check your alignment for free (although I don't get out as often as I used to), so this could be an issue.

- Jtoby

 

[Locke]

I have never gotten (or heard of) a free alignment inspection. I'd figure, the time it takes to bolt the alignment thingamajigs to the vehicle, and set the computer up, is a fair chunk of time during an actual alignment. I wouldn't pay all that labor for free inspections if I owned an alignment shop.

Hm. For the archives: the maximum amount by which a mis-installed strut bar could alter camber on a 2G is probably within measurement error

While I mentioned "potentially causing minor unintentional changes to camber", I do suppose I ought to stress "minor" in my above post, for the archives.

 

[asexton6969]

We are paid on commission. For every job we sign off on, we make money for. Everything is a set percentage or a set paid price. I work at Sears Auto in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. We check alignments for free, we'll bring you back show whats out of spec (if anything at all) if you want us to do it. It's $64.99 all four wheels (allowing that there is an adjustment). If not we tear everything down and give you a print out. Shit I always have all kinds of vehicles that I do four tires and then start the alignment and it doesnt need any adjustments. Only takes 5-10 mins to setup. Its adjusting the vehicle that takes the most time (God I hate rust....) I'm not sure If all Sears Auto's run it that way, it could be just the way our district does it. Check it out and let me know and if you ever happen to be in Iowa, I'll check your alignment for free.

By the way, would you guys happen to know if some KYB AGX's or if all of them have a higher or lower spring perch height?

Thanks, Andrew

 

[1BadRS]

Thanks for all the replies guys. So today I managed to get the front driver side done (upper arm, both lower arms, end link and the strut. I took forever since the car has 173K worth of northern weather on it, ie rust. The stupid end links wouldn't come off for anything so I had to cut off both ends. The metal sleve that sits on the strut rod at the top was like welded to it so that took awhile.

Once all together its riding the same as before so it may have changed the alignment some but not much. I didn't want to touch the steering parts until i'm ready for the alignment since getting that out of adjustment would eat up my tires. Next time out I'll knock out the other side then move to the steering parts.

Those suspension parts were slap wore out. The joints just flopped around vs the new ones which took a good bit of effort to move. I used to have a floating feeling driving down the road and even with only the one side done you can tell a huge difference.

Thanks again for all the advise.