96 Eclipse RS build

[Sullbren17]

I'm restarting this build thread because of the last thread that I had was full of "junk".

I bought the car for $2000 from a guy from my home town. It had JE pistons 8:8:1 ratio, a 255 wally FP, a vortex FMU, 450cc injectors, some 50 trim "Turboosh" turbo, and other generic brand turbo things and he told me he was running about 341 HP in the car. After I bought the car about a month and the valve guide seals were bad, and I didn't notice oil was burning. So the conclusion to that was a rod bearing spun.

I took the motor out and I made some stupid mistakes I'm not going to mention because I don't want this thread to turn into junk again, but I have the motor in my basement. I went .50 under on the crank so it wasn't salvageable said the machine shop and I never got my pistons and rods checked out because they do not look in the best shape.

I am shooting for 450 HP on my build. My build is a disaster and needs lots of love. this is what I'm going for..

1: Find a new shortblock for my motor,
2: Buy new forged internals after the block is machined.
3: New valves, seals, gaskets, head bolts, timing kit, oil pump ETC..
4: Assemble the engine and buy new flywheel, clutch.
5: Replace all engine and transmission mount bushings, and buy prothane bushing set.
6: Put bells and whistles on the engine and put it in the bay.
7: Do my upgrades, like my turbo, BOV, Wastegate, (already have turbo but generic brand)
8: Upgrade my cams, and upgrade to MS....

That's what my plan is i might have left out a few things but if anyone has a 420a Shortblock Should PM me

 

[grudgedoutgsxr]

It sounds like a good build. But are you swapping to a 4g63 motor? Because I personally think that you have a better chance in hitting your hp goal for a cheaper price. Then I don't know your funds dude.

 

[grothe3297venge]

You are also going to need a LSD to control that 450 hp goal you have.

 

[ehc14]

It sounds like a good build. But are you swapping to a 4g63 motor? Because I personally think that you have a better chance in hitting your hp goal for a cheaper price. Then I don't know your funds dude.

Not possible without MAJOR modifications to the car itself. If he wants a 4g63 he'd have to get a car that came with one or stick with the 420a

 

[Sullbren17]

I learned from these guys you cant do a 4g63 swap with out paying a arm and a leg. it would be easier to go buy a car with a 4g63 in it. I have a limited slip i bought from a guy in south dakota for 150 bucks. Im not going to do a 4g63 because i already have Je pistons for it and i already have the turbo mods and what not for it. so why start over? but just to ask anyone with a 420a how much boost would you have to run to reach my goal?

Oh and i also discovered all of my bushings where replaced with prothane bushing so my suspension is good

 

[KaosDsm]

I learned from these guys you cant do a 4g63 swap with out paying a arm and a leg. it would be easier to go buy a car with a 4g63 in it. I have a limited slip i bought from a guy in south dakota for 150 bucks. Im not going to do a 4g63 because i already have Je pistons for it and i already have the turbo mods and what not for it. so why start over? but just to ask anyone with a 420a how much boost would you have to run to reach my goal?

Oh and i also discovered all of my bushings where replaced with prothane bushing so my suspension is good

Its not a matter of how much boost you have to run to reach your desired goal. Not to be mean or rude but you have a lot of reading to do if your tackling this project yourself. But as far as reaching your goal of 450whp, what size turbo do you currently have? As how much "BOOST" depends on your compression along with the flow rate of the turbo you are planning on running. Good luck with your build though. Also have you thought about your fuel setup and what supporting mods do you currently have?

 

[Sullbren17]

Its not a matter of how much boost you have to run to reach your desired goal. Not to be mean or rude but you have a lot of reading to do if your tackling this project yourself. But as far as reaching your goal of 450whp, what size turbo do you currently have? As how much "BOOST" depends on your compression along with the flow rate of the turbo you are planning on running. Good luck with your build though. Also have you thought about your fuel setup and what supporting mods do you currently have?

My current set up is eagle rods, je pistons,
255 wally FP
450cc injectors
vortex FMU
And some generic brand turbo, FMIC, BOV, and WG

 

[grudgedoutgsxr]

My current set up is eagle rods, je pistons,
255 wally FP
450cc injectors
vortex FMU
And some generic brand turbo, FMIC, BOV, and WG

Would that go good on a 4g63, im buolinfd my dsm currently.

 

[Sullbren17]

Would that go good on a 4g63, im buolinfd my dsm currently.

A 4g63 build is just about the same as a 420a, but the 4g63 was factory built to withstand a turbo... i suggest looking at your upgrade paths I never owned a 4g63 but i do know that they can hold up more power then a 420a, and i know if you upgrade your turbo and upgrades you need to upgrade your fuel too. the wally 255FP, vortex FMU would work for your fuel and the injetors you would have to look at.... look at your upgrade paths..

Tech Guide: 2G 4G63t Upgrades - DSMtuners

 

[KaosDsm]

My current set up is eagle rods, je pistons,
255 wally FP
450cc injectors
vortex FMU
And some generic brand turbo, FMIC, BOV, and WG

The wally 255 is ok. Your going to need larger injectors as the 450cc's are not going to get you there. I would suggest atleast 900cc. The fmu should be replaced by a 1:1 Fuel pressure regulator, and when you say "generic turbo" its hard to tell what size your turbo is. You can use it if you want my first turbo was an ebay one also. My luck was that it did not fail on me but I would suggest getting something that will not cause you issues later down the line. But I understand money is an issue for most. I made 300whp @18 psi with 10.3afrs "wayyy to rich on stock portfueler tune) on a ebay t3/t4 with a Hahn portfueler and 1:1 fpr. I also would suggest going megasquirt ms3.pm me if you need any other info. Oh and I didn't see you mention anything about a FCD "Fuel cut defender" If you plan on running the fmu anyways this will be needed.

 

[Sullbren17]

The wally 255 is ok. Your going to need larger injectors as the 450cc's are not going to get you there. I would suggest atleast 900cc. The fmu should be replaced by a 1:1 Fuel pressure regulator, and when you say "generic turbo" its hard to tell what size your turbo is. You can use it if you want my first turbo was an ebay one also. My luck was that it did not fail on me but I would suggest getting something that will not cause you issues later down the line. But I understand money is an issue for most. I made 300whp @18 psi with 10.3afrs "wayyy to rich on stock portfueler tune) on a ebay t3/t4 with a Hahn portfueler and 1:1 fpr. I also would suggest going megasquirt ms3.pm me if you need any other info. Oh and I didn't see you mention anything about a FCD "Fuel cut defender" If you plan on running the fmu anyways this will be needed.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/460406-injector-wiring.html
I didnt know what this was but they guy i bougt the car from called this a jumper harness and he just pulled a wire out of the map and said that it should work as a fcd kinda thing so the ecu doesnt read boost. i think im going to do my paint, exterior/interior stuff before i put the motor in because i cant find one! but im planning on getting ms but i dont know how to hook it up like do you to program the ecu yourself from scratch or does it come pre programed hor how does that work?

 

[KaosDsm]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/460406-injector-wiring.html
I didnt know what this was but they guy i bougt the car from called this a jumper harness and he just pulled a wire out of the map and said that it should work as a fcd kinda thing so the ecu doesnt read boost. i think im going to do my paint, exterior/interior stuff before i put the motor in because i cant find one! but im planning on getting ms but i dont know how to hook it up like do you to program the ecu yourself from scratch or does it come pre programed hor how does that work?

I am not sure what the previous owner had going on there . A little weird but installing ms3 is pretty straight forward and not to bad. you can wire it in as a piggy back alongside with your factory ecu, but they cannot share the same sensors. like coolant temp, etc. I am wiring mine as a full standalone. As far as getting a base tune to run your car there are a lot of base files form symtech that can get you started. ill see if I can find them.

 

[Sullbren17]

When you put ms in you splice into your ecu harness. then you directly wire each indivisual wire like replacing a stereo? and then you run a usb to a computer with a program and you program it and such?

 

[grothe3297venge]

When you put ms in you splice into your ecu harness. then you directly wire each indivisual wire like replacing a stereo? and then you run a usb to a computer with a program and you program it and such?

No... MS does not splice into the factory ECU wiring. You will remove the OEM wires with the ones you want MS to control. Then you just roll up or cut the oem wire and enjoy a CEL

 

[Sullbren17]

No... MS does not splice into the factory ECU wiring. You will remove the OEM wires with the ones you want MS to control. Then you just roll up or cut the oem wire and enjoy a CEL

Time out... if you do a stand alone system to completley replace your factory ecu do you take out all of the fireing sensors like everything and you buy new sensors or what happens here

 

[grothe3297venge]

Not everything needs a new sensor, some you can use with the MS (TPS, CPS, and so forth). Now it does need different sensors for like the coolant temp and the intake air temp. Other then that, most things for a standalone unit you just splice wires together like the photo shows. Image is per symtech labs -

 

[Sullbren17]

Not everything needs a new sensor, some you can use with the MS (TPS, CPS, and so forth). Now it does need different sensors for like the coolant temp and the intake air temp. Other then that, most things for a standalone unit you just splice wires together like the photo shows. Image is per symtech labs -

I think i understand now like you dont change the wires on like your cam positioning sensor because you already have it and the sensors you do put in the engine doesnt have them right? or is is like that

 

[KaosDsm]

Not everything needs a new sensor, some you can use with the MS (TPS, CPS, and so forth). Now it does need different sensors for like the coolant temp and the intake air temp. Other then that, most things for a standalone unit you just splice wires together like the photo shows.


What grothe says . He's giving you the right info The install is pretty easy I am working on a clearer write up right now for a full standalone install.

 

[Sullbren17]

does anyone know what kind of selant i use to put a quarter glass window on is it just a silicone or does it have to be something sppecific

 

[Sullbren17]

What is a good quote for a 420a longblock over 150k?

 

[jayson427]

It depends on the area your in. I paid 400 dollars for mine from the junk yard for my rebuild. I wouldn't pay anything over that.

 

[Sullbren17]

I'm having a hard time even finding a block I have 400 saved for one. I can't find one under 700 and I've checked every selvage yard within 200 mile radius that I could find and I got a quote for 350 but can't find it.

 

[Sullbren17]

Whats the diffrence between 6 and 7 bolt 4g63

 

[jayson427]

It took me 6 months to find mine so don't get discourage. And the difference is just what it sounds like but why do you want to know? It's easier to Google it and read up on it

 

[BoostforBreakfast]

forget Megasquirt for this build if you are going to run the 420a (which you should). Use an AEM FIC piggyback. I ran it on a couple neons I built. You'll like it much better than trying to build maps for megasquirt. The FIC intercepts the Cam and crank sensors to adjust timing (it can only retard via this). It intercepts the fuel injectors for direct control of them. It intercepts the Map sensor and can "clamp" the voltage so the ECU doesn't see boost (you can also modify the MAP output map to get an advancement in timing). You can wire a wideband into it and log it as well as many other features such as IDC's, boost (the FIC has its own map sensor), rpms, etc. O2's can also be modified (or any other sensor). It has map switching capability as well.
It is a very good unit for someone just getting into tuning as you dont have to mess with warm up enrichment, temperature adjustments, or other factory settings like cruise, fans, etc.....
PM me if you need more info on the AEM unit or the 420a/neon platform engine (I've built a few turbocharged neons). I can also tune your FIC for ya

does anyone know what kind of selant i use to put a quarter glass window on is it just a silicone or does it have to be something sppecific

go to NAPA ask for "Windo-Weld" (I use it to fill engine mounts also)