Bad tranny problems

[eclipse_420]

I have a 98 rs automatic. I just had a new motor put in it then my tranny started making this whinny noise and locked up, so i bought another tranny and I have been driving it for 4 days now and this tranny
started makeing the same noise my other tranny did..but this one only seems to do it if you do city driving and only about 3000 rpm's. It has done it once down the highway but it done it at 4000 rpm's.. could it be the tranny cooler mabey it's not cooling it off enough..One other thing my speedometer dont work due to a short somewhere in the wiring..but I dont belive that has any thing to do with it couse i drove the car a year like that and it ran fine..this all started happening after the new motor was put in it.. any input would be greatly apprechiated?on spelling

thanks Bruce

 

[eclipse_420]

It is also shifting really hard from park to reverse and from neutral to reverse..Its almost like the torque converter isnt unlocking

 

[eclipse_420]

I guess nobody has any answers?? Does anyone think it might be the TCM...I just dont want to spend all the money for it to find out it's not

 

[transdude]

TCM's don't make whining noises or lock up transmissions. Perhaps there is some type of installation problem or the trans cooler in the rad is clogged, causing the lube circuit in the trans to be restricted. It is tough to say without hearing it. Does the noise go away completely in third gear?
-John

 

[eclipse_420]

It shifts fine and works fine the first 30 minutes or so I'm driving it, then it starts making this loud whinning noise at 3000 rmps and above, After the last time it happend I took the trans cooler lines off and the fluid seemed to be running fine, but when i pulled the dip stick out of the trans it was like foamy like it was getting too hot. How do you tell if the trans cooler is bad? The car sat for a year and a half if that helps any thing at all. After I finally brought it back out 2 days later the trans. went out so I put another one in it and now this one is starting to do the same thing..CRAZY it has me stummped

 

[transdude]

Originally posted by eclipse_420
It shifts fine and works fine the first 30 minutes or so I'm driving it, then it starts making this loud whinning noise at 3000 rmps and above, After the last time it happend I took the trans cooler lines off and the fluid seemed to be running fine, but when i pulled the dip stick out of the trans it was like foamy like it was getting too hot. How do you tell if the trans cooler is bad? The car sat for a year and a half if that helps any thing at all. After I finally brought it back out 2 days later the trans. went out so I put another one in it and now this one is starting to do the same thing..CRAZY it has me stummped

To check a trans cooler, with the return line disconnected from the trans, engine running in neutral, it must flow 1 quart of fluid in 30 seconds or less.
-John

 

[Doug99RS]

Um, check engine light on?
Cause I'm thinking it's not a bad tranny problem, I'm thinking it's a $30.00 problem and that you'll need a 1" socket on the drive of your choice with a three inch extension.
Doug

 

[eclipse_420]

Yea the check engine light is on, its putting out the pcode 1698 which means "P1698 Mitsubishi No CCD Messages From TCM " but what that means I dont know.

 

[eclipse_420]

I'll try checking the trans cooler and see what happens there..Thanks for the info.
Bruce

 

[Doug99RS]

In the future it really will save alot of time and guess work if you mention that you have a check engine light and the codes.

It's not going to be your transmission oil cooler. They are not electronically tied in to the trans system and therefore cannot give a code. You might see a "Loss of Prime" code but even that's stretching it. The code you had means that there's a communications problem between the PCM and TCM. Your transmission has gone in to Limp-In which is a safety feature that allows the driver to drive the car but in a limited capacity to prevent damage to the transmission. Limp-In puts the transmission in to second gear only and limits the driver as far as top speed.

The noise you're hearing is the trans/engine whining due to high RPM. The high RPM is caused by the transmission control module being in Limp-In. Your Limp in condition is caused by a communication problem or another electronic failure in the electronic transmission system (trans, wiring, or controllers).

Not all scan tools can retrieve all controller failure codes. Some can only retrieve engine codes, some engine and trans, and some can do more. I would not recomend doing ANY repairs to the car until you have retreived ALL the codes from both controllers and know exactly which areas are having difficulty operating.
Doug

 

[eclipse_420]

The car upshifts through every gear fine, but as stated before after about 20-30 minutes of driving the tranny starts making the noise usually about 3000 rpm in going down the road or sitting in park..The only thing shifting wise it is having a problem with is down shifting it will stall when I stop unless I hit the gas pedal so It can shift out of gear after it has down shifted through all of its gears it will idle fine but if i dont hit the gas a little bit as soon as i come to a compleate stop it will quit..Then I have to turn the the key all the way to the off position and start it again, if I dont turn it all the way to the off position it will quit every time it starts. My car has been in limp mode once before when the ignition switch fuse shorted out under my hood mitsubishi fixed that, but my speedometer quit working I drove the car over a year without the speedometer working and it stalled sometimes when I stoped but not to often...Then I had a new engine put in it (the other one hydro locked) and after I got my car back, 2 days later my tranny locked up after making that same whining noise..they took no blame in it..so I bought another tranny and installed it myself and 3-4 days of driving on it it also started making the noise. That is when I had the codes scanned and the code p1698 came up, and my speedsensor code came up, we cleared the computer and I drove it around till the check engine light came on and we scanned it again and the only code that came up was p1698..That is the whole story every thing I can think of..I apprechiate your help if anything in this makes you think its something else I would be greatly interested in your opinion I need to get this car back on the road its been almost 2 years. thanks
Bruce

 

[Doug99RS]

I really don't think anyone can give you a really good exact cause of your problem because all of the peices to the puzzle are not in front of us. You've given alot of good information and because of that I can give a good number of possibilities. However, without more specific information i.e. all of the P-Codes from both the transmission and Powertrain control module I can't give any better of an "over the internet diagnosis" than this. Here's what you've got to work with so far.


Condition 1: Transmission in Limp-In, Failure Codes present, Speedometer Inop, Poor shifting quality

Possible Cause: Defective Output speed sensor

Description: The output speed sensor is responsible for sending the vehicle speed sensor signal to the two computers which then transmit the signal to your instrument cluster. When it cannot read the output speed of the transmission then it will put the trans in Limp-In thus giving all of the conditions above.



Condition 2: Transmission in Limp-In, Failure Codes present, Poor shifting quality, Vehicle stalling at low speed/idle

Possible Cause: Bad Torque Convertor

Description: The Torque Convertor goes in to "Lock-Up" when engine RPM, Throttle position, and vehicle speed are at set conditions. When it locks up it basically goes in to a last gear similar to 5th gear in a manual transmission. 5th gear in a manual or lock-up in an automatic are designed for fuel economy. If the torque convertor stays locked up as the vehicle slows down then it will causing stalling, poor acceleration, trembling, or harsh shifts. The affects are similar to starting off at a stop in 5th gear. The engine cannot stay running and accelerate at such a low gearing.



Condition 3: Transmission in Limp-In, poor shifting, No Communications Failure Code

Possible Cause: Electrical failure in Trans controller, Powertrain
Controller, Wiring or all three

Description: If the two computers do not communicate properly then the transmission will go in to Limp-In. This safety feature will remain in affect until the condition causing the failure is repaired. Shorts or open circuits in the wiring or either control module could be the cause.




Condition 4: Transmission in Limp-In, poor shifting, failure codes, harsh gear engagement

Possible Cause: Defective Transmission Solenoid Pack

Description: This component is responsible for opening and closing valves, solenoids and passages that allow trans fluid to transfer to other areas of the transmission to cause shift changes, torque convertor engagement, and fluid pressure control. If this component fails it may cause a loss of pump prime, poor shifting, little to no transmission engagement, and certain failure codes.

There's alot of possibilities that are still out there though and until all of the failure codes from BOTH controllers are retrieved then there's really no telling which path of diagnostic work will need to be taken.

Some things that may be causing your problems may have transferred from your old transmissions to your most recent one depending on th method of trans removal and reinstallation. With a remanufactured transmission from Chrysler it comes with new input and output speed sensors, torque convertor, transmission solenoid pack, and a few other things. If any of these components were transferred from one transmission to the next then that would explain why your condition is still present even after all the swaps. If you got a used transmission those same components may be bad and causing identical problems. If you got a reman transmission then, again, some of these components may be transferred from the old trans and thus give you these problems.

Without all the fault codes and background on the changes you've made I can't really give any more input than this.
Doug

 

[Lostandfoundx]

Ive been going throught the same problem, but my code reader gives me these codes -

0700 - trans control sys. malfunction
P1798 - Manufacture specific DTC
p0750 - Shift solenoid B
p0755 - Shift solenoid A

sometimes a and b are switched, its either or usally. any info would be greatly appreciated. im about to the point of instead of spending 400 on sensors for a ### auto tranny, just spending a grand and getting everything i need for a 5spd conversion and being happy!!

 

[transdude]

Eclipse-420 didn't say anything about limp mode, nor did he say that lack of speedo was causing his trans not to upshift 1-2 or go into limp. The code that he had was pretty common when using a Snap on scanner, thier software is not that compatible with some of these models. If everyone would read the complaint, it seems to be a whining noise above 3000 rpms accompanied by what may be uncontrollable lock-up application. None of this sounds electrical in nature.
-John

 

[Doug99RS]

I did read his complaint and I did understand partially some of his problems with the car. Furthermore I know quite a bit about the electronic transmission that is in his car because it's in over 50% of the cars that I work on, on a daily basis, and have been for over 5 years now. I DID see that the ONE code that he listed clearly stated: No CCD Messages from TCM. This code is nothing BUT electrical. It's communications. That's ALL ELECTRICAL and has nothing to do with the hydraulic or mechanical aspect of the transmission.

The Vehicle speed sensor WILL affect transmission operation and is ALSO ALL ELECTRICAL because it's a sensor that mounts in to the side of the transmission. They are a known problem with every chrysler transmission using them, The chrylser minivans, chrysler cloud cars, eagle talons, eclipses, some of the jeeps, and most if not all of the LH cars which are the intrepids, concorde, and LHS. This will cause poor gear engagement, hold the trans in 2nd gear, and caues the speedometer to quit working because it uses the output speed sensor to detect vehicle speed.

You just said yourself that the snap-on scan tools has problems communicating with these computers/trans so that backs up what I said about the generic scan tool interpretation of the trouble codes and that they are not fully compatible.

The information I was providing was NOT a complete diagnosis of the problem but it was a hell of a lot better, and accurate, information than any other person has added since this thread has started.

The bottom line is this.... Without ALL of the trouble codes, Transdude, Myself, or anyone else out there who feels they have something worth adding, CANNOT give a very good interpretation of what may or may not be going on with your transmission and the electronic components related to it.

 

[eclipse_420]

The trans cooler is flowing fine..Continuity teasted the wires from tranny to ecu to tcm to instument cluster and found no breaks or shorts..On with the drawing board "Thanks for everybodys help"

 

[Doug99RS]

Have you retrieved the rest of the trouble codes?

 

[transdude]

Originally posted by Doug99RS
I did read his complaint and I did understand partially some of his problems with the car. Furthermore I know quite a bit about the electronic transmission that is in his car because it's in over 50% of the cars that I work on, on a daily basis, and have been for over 5 years now. I DID see that the ONE code that he listed clearly stated: No CCD Messages from TCM. This code is nothing BUT electrical. It's communications. That's ALL ELECTRICAL and has nothing to do with the hydraulic or mechanical aspect of the transmission.

The Vehicle speed sensor WILL affect transmission operation and is ALSO ALL ELECTRICAL because it's a sensor that mounts in to the side of the transmission. They are a known problem with every chrysler transmission using them, The chrylser minivans, chrysler cloud cars, eagle talons, eclipses, some of the jeeps, and most if not all of the LH cars which are the intrepids, concorde, and LHS. This will cause poor gear engagement, hold the trans in 2nd gear, and caues the speedometer to quit working because it uses the output speed sensor to detect vehicle speed.
You just said yourself that the snap-on scan tools has problems communicating with these computers/trans so that backs up what I said about the generic scan tool interpretation of the trouble codes and that they are not fully compatible.

The information I was providing was NOT a complete diagnosis of the problem but it was a hell of a lot better, and accurate, information than any other person has added since this thread has started.

The bottom line is this.... Without ALL of the trouble codes, Transdude, Myself, or anyone else out there who feels they have something worth adding, CANNOT give a very good interpretation of what may or may not be going on with your transmission and the electronic components related to it.

I myself have rebuilt a few hundred 604's since their introduction in 1989 (as well as probably 4000 or so transmissions in total over the 18 years that I have been a transmission rebuilder), so I feel moderately qualified to give my opinion on this problem. Again, if we read this complaint carefully it is a whining noise above 3000 rpm- even in park, accompanied by episodes of converter lock up and subsequent engine stall. I have to re-state that I haven't seen many electrical problems cause whining noises.

 

[Doug99RS]

I did go to the effort of chceking a few of your other posts AFTER my last response. I was able to see that you do have quite a bit of experience, and honestly more than myself. While I did not make a specific diagnosis of the symptoms, I did list the torque convertor as a possible suspect given the noise, stalling, and shifting concerns.

Since you know so much about transmissions including the A604/41TE then I'm sure you can understand the need to get ALL of the trouble codes before trying to fix a problem. Between the input and output speed sensors, solenoid pack, valve body, trans controller, powertrain controller, PRNDL switch and everything else that goes wrong, you of all people should at least appreciate my efforts at gathering as much information as possible before telling someone to spend any money or pull out a transmission.

Much like every other response I give I'll leave this one with wanting as much information as possible before giving any guess as to the cause.
Doug

 

[The1Bill]

It also sounds to me like it might be the torque converter. Did you use a different converter when you put in the new transmission? Or did you use the old one? What the TransDude was saying is that the SnapOn code readers give a false TCM communication MIL code, even if the TCU is functioning fine. I think that this has something to do with the fact that the A/T ECU pinouts aren't different from the M/T ECU pinouts, and the TCU has limited dealings with the PCM. If the fluid level is fine, I would look into the torque converter being iffy.
Then again, the only solid knoledge that I have about the A604 is... that I like the NVG-T350 that I swapped in much better.
-=B-=

 

[Doug99RS]

Well?

 

[Doug99RS]

So wtf? You've gotten alot of good information from a bunch of different people and you can't let us know what it was?
Doug