56 trim too much?

[Spdrcr7882]

I am beginning to get fed up with all the problems that come with dsm's. I am kinda startin to think i mgiht want an easy way out. not to sell the car but an easier turbo setup to tune. I bought the rs 65 from agp about 5 months ago
RS65
-65 lb/min compressor
-56 trim GT40 compressor wheel
-76 trim T350 turbine wheel
-T04E (3" inlet, 2" outlet) or T04S compressor housings
A friend at work offered to trade my his big 16g and some money for my turbo. I will need to spend another 300 to have an external gate put on my car, since i got this turbo with an internal gate. I wanna keep the 56 trim and get it tuned, but i am not sure how much power i can make with my mods. Will a big 16 with a set of HKS cams make anywhere near the saem power as a 56 trim without cams, both on pump. My internals on my engine are stock and i would not want to put 1500+more into my engine to build it up. Which turbo will make me more power on stock internals wiht pump gas.
Thanx
Justin

 

[Groomz]

Probably not. A the 56 trim you described is a 680hp turbo I believe, and even an Evo III 16G could not make that kind of power.

56 trim > Evo III 16G > most other turbos.

 

[Z1500]

Yep, I remember talking to you. It's really way more turbo than you can use. I would down grade to the 16g if I was you, just make sure you get a few hundred bucks in the trade. You really should have just got the RS49, that would have been the perfect middle ground between the two.

Kevin
www.agpturbo.com

 

[GS><]

In his situation wouldn't the 56 still make more horsepower than the big 16.

 

[Spdrcr7882]

i was given a rough estimate by victor research in hartford, that my 56 trim could probably make 340-350 to the wheels without cams and with stock internals. If this is true then that is still more than the 320 i might be able to see with a big 16 with cams. and 340-350 is actually my exact goal. Is 340 likely with the 56 trim with a good shop tuning it for me?
thanx
Justin

 

[MNGSX]

Cams do effect the power curve. However, on these cars a difference in turbo size as big as what you are talking about the turbo will be responsible for almost the entire power difference you are talking about.

The problem with running a 56 trim at alot less than it's potential is that you will be experiencing lag like a 680hp turbo to get your 340-360hp.

I'd get that RS49 or for a bit more a FP2544 or something ball bearing from AGP in that mid size range.

For what I'm doing a 65lb/min rig is nice. A ways down the road the only change I would make is to get a BB 56 trim or have mine converted.

 

[Mike 99GSX]

Originally posted by Spdrcr7882
i was given a rough estimate by victor research in hartford, that my 56 trim could probably make 340-350 to the wheels without cams and with stock internals. If this is true then that is still more than the 320 i might be able to see with a big 16 with cams. and 340-350 is actually my exact goal. Is 340 likely with the 56 trim with a good shop tuning it for me?
thanx
Justin

I don't think you realize how big the 56 trim wheel is. Don't let the number "56" fool you. This wheel flows 65 LB/min and is a monster. (Heard of the FP3065? Same compressor wheel.) This turbo is capable of 550-600whp without nitrous. If you only want to make 340-350whp you should get an evo 16g or a 50 trim. You'll have the power you want and alot less lag.

 

[Syndicate]

Depends with your whole engine setup .. i have a 2.4 so i went with a .60-1 in a .50 housing and a stage 5 .63 a/r exhaust wheel .. just in my opinion the smaller turbo's seem to be more "fun" , a hell of alot easier to set up .. once i get some pics of my car i will show you .. the welding for the manifold , getting the right exhaust flange that blocks off the where the internal wastegate was .. etc etc was just a huge pain .. i wouldnt do what i did over because the set up will melt 14b to 20gs .. but i loved the response of a mitsu much more.

 

[Syndicate]

Originally posted by MNGSX
Cams do effect the power curve. However, on these cars a difference in turbo size as big as what you are talking about the turbo will be responsible for almost the entire power difference you are talking about.

I went from hks 272's to crane cams 248's and i have more power with the 248's =/ .. i honestly dont think cams are going todo much unless you get a custom grind .. if you check most magazines or articles in most cases cams always hurt performance..




But hey at least you wont have to worry about ever cooking your turbo , when you bend rods and not just having little compression leaks then you know you are making some power

 

[Spdrcr7882]

So, what it looks like is that i should use a smaller turbo, but for the least amount of money possible what are my options. I can get a big 16g and some cash in trade for mine, or i could ask agp if i could send mine back and tradee or get a different wheel put in, a smaller one? I would like to get a smaller turbo but i think i want one alittle bigger than a big 16. Any suggestions?
Justin

 

[MNGSX]

I'd talk to Kevin and see what he can do...

I'm sure he can come up with something that is a bit better for you than just selling it privately yet keeps him in the black on the deal.

There is more to it than just swapping wheels the housings are matched to the wheels themselves.

Example.

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Look at the difference in ID size between the same compressor housing inlet and casting type. Almost a straight wall ID on the second vs a pretty good taper on the first.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by Spdrcr7882
i was given a rough estimate by victor research in hartford, that my 56 trim could probably make 340-350 to the wheels this is my exact goal.

Yeah but the turbo in most cases spools at 4500 rpms and has the throttle response of a wet sponge. Why on earth would you select a turbo that supports 600 Hp if you only desire 350. Sell that turbo and get a rs49 as suggested.

Which turbo will make me more power on stock internals wiht pump gas.

So far not much has come close to what 50 trim offerings have done on pump. Even if you exclude dre. There are lots of other cars making good HP on pump gas with 50 trim turbos.

 

[Spdrcr7882]

i was alot less educated when i bought this turbo, and in my mind i figured i could just turn the boost down and have it make 350 wheel hp, easy. I know much more now, and i'm regretting goin wiht the 56 trim. Any help you guys from agp can give me will be GREATLY appreciated.
THanx
Justin

 

[GSX4LIFE]

Originally posted by Spdrcr7882
i was alot less educated when i bought this turbo, and in my mind i figured i could just turn the boost down and have it make 350 wheel hp, easy. I know much more now, and i'm regretting goin wiht the 56 trim. Any help you guys from agp can give me will be GREATLY appreciated.
THanx
Justin

Thats BS Justin. I had a very long discussion with you about this turbo at Ed's house. Did you think I was lying? I explained how big it was. That it would be much more difficult to tune. And that you would not make the power. I told you to get the RS49. You didnt listen. So I will try again. Try to sell your turbo, and get an RS49.

 

[Spdrcr7882]

Back when i talked to you at ed's i had intentions of building a stroker motor. Now that i have had a million and one problems wiht my engine (not turbo related) i want to get away from puttin several more thousand dollars into my car. I have no problem taking my car to a shop to have it tuned, b/c the last thing i wanna do is break my engine do to my own error. Granted i do know more now, but i am referring to what it takes to keep these cars running not what this turbo is capable of. Now that my bank account and my dreams are more realistic i need a smaller turbo. It's not a matter of me not believing you, b/c u prob. know more about these cars than anyone else i know. It's a matter of new goals. Thank you for you input.
Justin

 

[GSntncT]

God, I'm glad I decided to check this thread out. I already made one turbo mistake, I was just going to make another......

50 trim for me please.

Oh, getting to the thread, I'm very sure you can find someone to by your 56.....good luck!

 

[DWAIST]

shit kevin even talked me out of the 56trim! he was like "steve maybe you try out the 60-1 first"! i said no way man i'm putting the 50trim on my gs-t and i need the 56trim for the talon! well, what can i say, a week later a 60-1 showed up on my door step! i got OWNED! no just playin' we decided on the 60-1 and kevin asured me that the talon would come unglued on this turbo at 30psi! so here we go! but don't worry kevin you know i still want that 56trim.......i will OWN all!!