14b Compressor Wheel Swap question

[dthquazi1]

I searched for this topic for quite awhile and couldn't find anything on it. I was wondering if there was a place to buy a 16g compressor wheel and swap it into my 14b. Is this logical. It seems to be to me since it fits in the same housing. I definately want a 16g but i dont have much money. If i could do this for cheap then i will.

 

[nine5raptor]

It would need to be balanced after installing the wheel.

Someone sells the center cartridge to upgrade your 14b for ~$500, but I can't remember who right now

 

[dthquazi1]

balancing isn't expensive is it. I could get the big 16g for 550 though and the regular for 500.

 

[Rogue_Ant]

Originally posted by nine5raptor
It would need to be balanced after installing the wheel.

Someone sells the center cartridge to upgrade your 14b for ~$500, but I can't remember who right now

Most likely you will get the wheel balanced before you install it....
A wheel should cost you less then 100 with balancing.

Rogue

 

[dthquazi1]

but does anyone know where to get the wheel. if it costs less than 100 this seems the be the route to go to get a 16g if your short on money.

 

[Rogue_Ant]

Any turbo repair shop should be able to get and balance the wheel for you.

The 16G also has a 7cm^2 turbine housing...

Rogue

 

[dthquazi1]

so what rogue is saying is with the 7cm housing that this isn't possible?
Could the wheel be clipped to fit?

 

[Rogue_Ant]

No it should work... the 16G wheel is the compressor (intake) side.
The turbine housing is exhaust... It should actually spool up sooner then a true 16G but not have as much potential, until you upgrade to the bigger (read flows more) exhaust housing.

Rogue

 

[Groomz]

If you have the 14b I would get the 16G compressor ( intake side ) wheel and have the exhaust turbine housing ported. This would get you very close to what a true 16G would be. I plan on doing exactly the same thing once I get my 14b rebuilt and ported. Good luck man! This sounds different and very cool.

 

[allwheelTSI]

Originally posted by Rogue_Ant
Most likely you will get the wheel balanced before you install it....
A wheel should cost you less then 100 with balancing.

Rogue

no,he was right. the turbo needs to be balanced as an assembly after the wheel is installed.

 

[dthquazi1]

so i know i may sound clueless here but i want to be positive on this before i get out and do it. I should get the 16g (intake) wheel at a local turbo shop. Then i would have to port the turbine housing so the other wheel will fit. This will act close to a 16g. But will it be considerably cheaper than one? Then i get it balanced. Right. Correct me if im wrong.

 

[allwheelTSI]

yes, if you have that wheel installed you will have a 16g turbo,there are no other differences.

 

[Groomz]

Porting the turbine housing is not necessary, just recommended while the turbo is out of the car. The 16G compressor wheel will fit inside the compressor housing without machining I believe. The bare minimum you would have to do is have the wheel installed and then have the whole assembly balanced.

 

[pneumo]

Guys, please stop guessing!

There are some important differences between the 14b and the 16G. If you want to convert your 14b into a 16G you will need the compressor wheel, backing plate, and the compressor cover will need to be machined to fit the larger 16G wheel. No exceptions, no shortcuts.

Any mods done to the exhaust side are strictly optional.

Check out VFAQ.com He's got some nice pictures of a turbo rebuild.

 

[GRNDSM]

He is right, it is not just the compressor wheel and housing, you also need a backing plate matching the 16G compressor wheel.

As for balancing, it is a good idea, but I have seen numerous turbos which had undergone unbalanced compressor wheel swap and they were fine. But do it at your own risk...

Porting compressor side IMO is pretty much worthless, all of my record setting 14b's had unported compressor side. Now, is it possible that I could have picked up some more power had it ported the compressor housing? Possibly... But if unported 14b housing is good for high 11's, I would not bother to port it on a 12 sec car.

Leon
RR

 

[DarkstarTsi]

Ok, lets put some things in order because this topic can start being confusing:
1. Turbochargers.com sells the 16G wheel for $100 and the big 16G for $150 so here's a place to buy it.
2. As said above, 16G wheels differ from 14B wheels because 14B's have a flat bottom while 16G's have convex (curved) bottoms, thats why you would need a new backing plate that fits the new 16G wheel.
3. 17C and 19C wheels have flat bottoms so these would fit without changing the plate.
4. You DO need to machine the cartridge on the side of the compressor wheel so that the new LARGER diameter wheel fits.
5. You DO need to BALANCE the assembly as a whole in order to have a turbo that will last.
6. It would be better if you also swap the compressor wheel housing to a 16G one, cause it has a bigger inlet nozzle. The turbine housing is optional but the 7cm has better potential(top end) as said before.
I did this project myself using my original 14B cartirdge, td05 turbine wheel, 7cm EVO III exhaust housing, 17C compressor wheel and 16G compressor housing. I managed to get all used parts and saved lots of $$$$.
Just my .02

 

[dthquazi1]

ok, so i can get the wheel with the plate for 175 at turbochargers.com. I dont need to go with the 7cm exhaust housing do I? It is another 175 for it. Is there anywhere that someone knows of that is cheaper. Do i need anything else to do this?

 

[ShapeGSX]

Originally posted by GRNDSM

Porting compressor side IMO is pretty much worthless, all of my record setting 14b's had unported compressor side.

Other than getting rid of boost creep, can you think of a reason to port the exhaust side of a turbo? Everyone does it, but I can't find anyone who can tell me why. The exhaust inlet is larger than the area of 2 exhaust valves (only 2 are open at a time). A 7cm^2 exhaust housing only has a 7cm^2 nozzle leading to the turbine. And nobody ports out the nozzle.

So does porting a turbo's exhaust side really lead to more power? Or did Mitsu get it right with the casting?

 

[GRNDSM]

>Other than getting rid of boost creep, can you think of a reason to port the
>exhaust side of a turbo?

Sure, you get rid of that nasty ~1/8” step, that surely causes some turbulence! That has to be worth something…

But I could not quantify the gains… Why don't you port your 16g and report on your findings?

Leon
RR

 

[ShapeGSX]

Originally posted by GRNDSM
>Other than getting rid of boost creep, can you think of a reason to port the
>exhaust side of a turbo?

Sure, you get rid of that nasty ~1/8” step, that surely causes some turbulence! That has to be worth something…

I was actually thinking of using the stock Evo III sealing ring and an Evo III exhaust manifold. That would get rid of any step.

But I could not quantify the gains… Why don't you port your 16g and report on your findings?

The Evo III exhaust housing is already very thin. I'd be worried about porting it too much.

 

[pkat337]

>Other than getting rid of boost creep, can you think of a reason to port the turbo?

Main reason for porting the turbine housing is not boost creep. This is only accomplished through porting the wastegate port on an internally gated turbo. The main reason to port and clip a turbo is for top end performance. This is because on some turbos the compressor side supplies more air than the engine can exhaust so this limits performance in the same manner that restrictive headers due on a naturally aspirated car. Although with porting lag could be a side effect, but generally not very noticeable especially with the 14b/16g that you are creating. I would say as long as the ports match your manifold and O2 housing that you should be good to go. Polishing will also improve flow for minimal gains.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Originally posted by pkat337
Main reason for porting the turbine housing is not boost creep. This is only accomplished through porting the wastegate port on an internally gated turbo. The main reason to port and clip a turbo is for top end performance. This is because on some turbos the compressor side supplies more air than the engine can exhaust so this limits performance in the same manner that restrictive headers due on a naturally aspirated car. Although with porting lag could be a side effect, but generally not very noticeable especially with the 14b/16g that you are creating. I would say as long as the ports match your manifold and O2 housing that you should be good to go. Polishing will also improve flow for minimal gains.

How do you know all of this stuff for sure? I've never seen anyone quantify the gains.

I jsut ran 118.02 mph with a 100% stock Evo III Big 16G. No port. No clip.

 

[pkat337]

Well for one, you never know for sure until after you do it unless you want to have all of your components flow checked starting with the intake. Also the reason people use the EVO III Big 16g is because the turbine housing ports are already larger, thus eliminating the need to port. That is a very good and very strong turbo. I would say that your run of 118 is very modest and that you have alot more potential in that turbo.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Incidentally, my previous best with the exact same setup except for a small 16G, ported by TRE was 112.5mph.

Also, you can port the inlet of a turbine housing to direct more flow at the wastegate, without porting the wastegate itself.

The Evo III Big 16G only has a larger turbine outlet than a normal 7cm housing. And my TRE housing had an outlet that was ported to the same dimensions as the Evo housing.

You can see why I might be a bit scared to port the Evo turbo. I gained 5.5mph by switching from one massively ported 16G to another completely unported 16G.

 

[GRNDSM]

>Main reason for porting the turbine housing is not boost creep.
>This is only accomplished through porting the wastegate port
>on an internally gated turbo.

So it is porting after all . Must agree with Josh, there hasn’t been much evidence that porting exhaust housing (other than a WG port) does much of anything… Personally, I think that removing that step must help some… Come on, Josh, live on a wild side, port that turbo housing!

>The main reason to port and clip a turbo is for top end performance.

I can tell this much, clipping my 16G 10 degrees didn’t not help me. This was back when I was running in the 12.3 range.

>Polishing will also improve flow for minimal gains.

Polishing anything for better flow is a controversial topic, there is a school of thought that it is better to have a small turbulent layer right at the contact with the surface and that comes from a rough surface. But I am not going to get into that discussion right now, mainly because I have no concrete proof that one theory is better than the other.

However, porting the exhaust side is a different matter. Have you ever seen what happens to any exhaust components after just 10 minutes of running time? It gets all covered-up with carbon. Polishing ANY those parts is a waste of time and $$$! I would suggest to run away from anyone offering to do it for you for a charge…

Leon
RR