20g requirements?

[GaRn]

would you say this is sufficient to run the boost specified?

-PCFCON computer(what is this? reprogram?)
-HKS metal head gasket
-greddy profec b ebc
-boost / a/f guages
-ported intake/o2/exhaust manifold
-act 2600


this car im lookin at doesnt have any fuel mods advertised which really kinda threw me.. with the mods it has you would think it has the right fuel mods as well..

20g inside 18g housing.. is this as good as the 20g.. i assume the 18g housing is slightly smaller and was bored..

14 psi daily
has run 18 psi..

could the stock fuel system even handle 14 psi without any fuel mods?

thanks..

 

[DSMSpyder99]

20G:
Fuel Pump: At least a Walbro 255/255HP. With that, you'd probably need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator to control the fuel overrun (255HP mainly).
Fuel Injectors: Again, at least 550's. If you wanted to be real safe, 660's wouldn't hurt, you'd just need to lean out the mixture a little more. You'd also need a fuel controller. An S-AFC would work, but for this turbo I'd recommend at least a VPC/GCC combo.
Wastegate: At least a 35mm external gate (Tial's work very well). Mount it either on the manifold or on the o2 housing.
Exhaust: Again, you could get away with a 2.5" exhaust, but you'd be better off with a 3" exhaust.
Intake: You'll need a larger intake to bolt the filter up to the inlet. Also, you'll need an FMIC w/ all new piping.
Engine: Stock. Again, you could run cams if you wanted to, but it's not a prerequisite.
Drivetrain: At least an ACT 2600.

 

[GaRn]

no im sayin this car is one im lookin at buying.. it had the stuff i listed.. just wondered if you thought that was enough to support it.. it has 2600 clutch..

 

[LandoAWD]

No. The thing would be starving for fuel.

 

[GaRn]

so should i buy it if its been run like this for a few years? since its been running lean, i assume there migh have been some engine damage? should i buy it?

 

[GaRn]

i talked to him, and he has always run 14 psi and according to his air/fuel ratio guage, he is always running slightly rich and is never below halfway.. im sure this has somethin to do with the retuned computer/chip replacement... looks like im gonna by it! finally..

 

[GaRn]

anyone have anyhting else to say? wouldnt let a fellow (to be)dsmer' buy a shitty car would ya?!?!?!

 

[Mike 99GSX]

There is no real way for anyone to be certain. He should have at least been running a 255 pump with it. I would be hard pressed to believe that anyone who put a 20g turbo on their car would only run it at 14PSI. The A/F gauge is not an accurate enough indicator of how lean he was running. I would see if he'll let you at least run a compressiion check on the car and see what kind of numbers it has. I would also pull off the inlet pipe and see if the turbo has any shaft play. It could have been fairly abused so I'd be skeptical.

 

[nine5raptor]

"slightly rich, never below halfway" is extremely lean! think about it, where do we usually tune? around .90-.94 or so.
"never below halfway" He was running around .5x!!! I doubt that car even really went anywhere at WOT with timing being pulled down as far as the the ecu can. He would've been knocking HORRIBLY, so yes, there is most likely engine damage.

 

[nine5raptor]

to add: at those a/f ratios, even a non-turbo car would run like sh!t.

and for those that say narrow band a/f gauges aren't accurate at all, they are at those values (near stoich).

 

[purplehazetsi]

Es Bad

 

[GaRn]

ok i see what your sayin.. what he said to me was that according to the meter you always wanna keep it in yellow or whatever, and he has never gotten into green(stoich) or red(lean).. he bought the car from that guy that built it, for 5500 bucks..

what should the numbers (compression) be around?

well i mean hes running a 20g.. at 14 psi.. obviously the intake would be much coolerthan the 14b's at that level.. even tho its pushin more cfm.. i dont see any harm.. now raising the boost higher might be another thing..

how do i check for shaft play exactly? just with my fingers?

optimal a/f would be around 11 to 12 at most right?

 

[Ricardo]

That guy seems like a dumbass, I wouldn't buy the car from him. As for the compression test, read this faq : http://www.dsmgrrrl.com/FAQs/compression.htm

A good reading would be 180 on the compression test. A bad reading would be 140 or less.

A/F Gauges are not accurate, if he knew anything he would have EGT. Now imagine the danger if he removed the honeycombs and hacked his MAS, the AF/o2 reading could be reading even higher than its supposed to, meaning hes running lean as hell...

Compression test it and you'll know.

 

[nine5raptor]

Originally posted by Ricardo
A/F Gauges are not accurate, if he knew anything he would have EGT. Now imagine the danger if he removed the honeycombs and hacked his MAS, the AF/o2 reading could be reading even higher than its supposed to, meaning hes running lean as hell...

Compression test it and you'll know.

EGT's aren't very good either. They simply give you an indication of timing retard/advance. Af gauges are accurate within a certain range, and the way it sounds like the car was tuned, it would be in that range (way too lean).

Removing honeycombs and hacking the mas will change the af ratio, but it will NOT affect the operation of the 02 sensor. The voltage it outputs is based on what is in the exhaust stream, not what happens in the intake.

 

[nine5raptor]

Originally posted by GaRn
ok i see what your sayin.. what he said to me was that according to the meter you always wanna keep it in yellow or whatever, and he has never gotten into green(stoich) or red(lean).. he bought the car from that guy that built it, for 5500 bucks..

well i mean hes running a 20g.. at 14 psi.. obviously the intake would be much coolerthan the 14b's at that level.. even tho its pushin more cfm.. i dont see any harm.. now raising the boost higher might be another thing..

The important fact in what you said earlier was not the fact that it was a 20g at 14psi, it was the fact that he was running it so lean that he was near to stoich. Even if you run the stock turbo at 9 psi, at "slightly rich", you still run the risk of damaging the engine. What kind of gas has he been running?

 

[GaRn]

ok i need some REAL advice from someone that KNOWS what they are talkin about.. ignore everything else.. these are the mods he has..

-16-inch ENKEI racing rims
-PCFCON Computer
-HKS metal Head gasket
-Greddy Pro-fec B Boost Controller
-Greddy Turbo timer
-Auto meter Phantom series boost gauge
-Auto meter Phantom series Air/Fuel Ratio gauge
-Ported - Intake Manifold, O2 Housing, Exhaust Manifold
-ACT 2600 High Performance Clutch(less then 600 miles on the new clutch)
-CAB Adjustable Suspension
-Suspension Techniques Front & Rear Sway Bars
-Front crossed drilled rotors with Metal Master Brake Pads
-Balancing Shaft Eliminator kit
-K&N Air Filter
-Infinity Rear Speakers
-Upgraded Turbo 20g inside 18g housing

thats ALL he has done, at 14 psi.. he said quote "the air/fuel ratio runs rich which its supposed to and it moves depending on if your racing and stuff like that but you always want to keep it in the green section its red yellow and green green is rich and is what you want."

obviously he isnt to educated about the car..

he installed the guages and clutch, the guy before him installed everything else..

 

[Mike 99GSX]

I gave you good advice 3 days ago. You want to know what kind of shape the car is in. Do a compression test. The tool cost $40 if you don't have one and it takes 10 minutes to do. That will at least tell you how soon it may need a rebuild but aside from tearing the car apart, there is no way to be certain and I'm sure you can't do that since its not yours. Inspect the turbo for shaft play. Pull the inlet hose off and wiggle the compressor shaft. It should have very little movement. Inspect the manifold and exhaust side of the turbo for cracks. Does it drive OK? Do any gears grind? Does it pull hard? Does it idle good? Buying a used car is a bit of a crapshoot. I would honestly be skeptical about buying a car that is potentially abused because it has a big ass turbo on it with no supporting mods that could have done damage. Is it a 1g or a 2g? You haven't mentioned that. Used 1gs are a dime a dozen around here so I wouldn't be that hung up on it if you're nervous about the condition.

 

[GaRn]

Originally posted by Mike 99GSX
I gave you good advice 3 days ago. You want to know what kind of shape the car is in. Do a compression test. The tool cost $40 if you don't have one and it takes 10 minutes to do. That will at least tell you how soon it may need a rebuild but aside from tearing the car apart, there is no way to be certain and I'm sure you can't do that since its not yours. Inspect the turbo for shaft play. Pull the inlet hose off and wiggle the compressor shaft. It should have very little movement. Inspect the manifold and exhaust side of the turbo for cracks. Does it drive OK? Do any gears grind? Does it pull hard? Does it idle good? Buying a used car is a bit of a crapshoot. I would honestly be skeptical about buying a car that is potentially abused because it has a big ass turbo on it with no supporting mods that could have done damage. Is it a 1g or a 2g? You haven't mentioned that. Used 1gs are a dime a dozen around here so I wouldn't be that hung up on it if you're nervous about the condition.

the turbo is really new.. gears dont grind, i searched paper and auto trader, there isnt ONE turbo eclipse, laser, or talon from year 1990-1997, much less awd, searched within 75 miles on autotrader.. i wish i lived where you do! i also have never seen a turbo model at any dealership..