timing belt change idiots

[lowridin2g]

just got my car back from getting the timing belt, balance shaft belt and all acc. belts changed. i noticed like abnormal vibration ever since it was done. motor mount is tight. to explain it more in detail, it sounds like the motor is at redline when its at 4,000 rpms sends off a vibration and my exhaust even sounds different. i mean it almost sounds as though u can hear the engine over the exhaust. i called them today and im bringing it back monday. but until then does anyone have any suggestions to whats wrong? im guessing timing is off or they didnt balance the motor right.

 

[Jon H]

Balance shaft is out of phase. You're alright, just make sure they get it right the second time around.

 

[lowridin2g]

cool, honestly thats what i thought it would be. what does that involve to get it right? do they have to drop the motor on that side again? cause the lazy asses prob wont do that. prob tell me some bullshit story like its fine. i just want it done right

 

[Jon H]

Read up on the whole procedure here:

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-2G.html

They basically have to take off all the belts and start over. If they give you any shit, show them a print-out of the procedure and point out # 24 to them and also the part where it says:

Caution: MAKE SURE THE BALANCE SHAFT IS PROPERLY POSITIONED. It is possible for the oil pump sprocket timing marks to be properly aligned, and have the balance shaft out of phase. This could result in a SEVERE engine vibration.

When I had my cyclone engine dropped in, I was ignorant enough to find the cheapest possible place to drop the motor in - $300. It was at this mexican auto shop/junk yard. When I got the car back, the balance shaft was out of phase with the oil pump and I had to fix the damn thing myself. I would have had them re-do it, but I wasn't sure that they'd be able to comprehend anything that I would say.

Ah well.

 

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Jon H
Balance shaft is out of phase. You're alright, just make sure they get it right the second time around.

He's right. The same thing happened to me. The balance shaft belt was out by two teeth and the vibration would run through the steering column at idle and 3000 RPM. Made them re-position belt and all was good.

 

[stevetrbp]

Same thing happend to me! It was the first time and last time I took my car to the shop. I just ended up removing the ballance shafts my self, and it was worth it.

 

[lowridin2g]

can this hurt anythihng? i mean, engine wise or even performanse wise?

 

[Jon H]

Performance wise? Yes, it hinders performance quite a bit.

Hurt anything? It may, and it may not.. but think about all that vibration it's causing, it may cause some things to come loose. If you can, try not to run WOT and just stay under 3k RPMs until it gets fixed.

 

[QuickerDSM]

I had mine out of phase last month. I didn't know what it was so I drove it like that for about 5-7 miles. The vibration caused my oil filter adapter to vibrate loose and it pushed all of my oil out in about 10 seconds. Felt like was driving on ice too.

I'd get it fixed as soon as you can.

Mike

 

[TwoLiterV8Eater]

The Dealership (SATAN) did that to me when they did a timing belt recall on my car. I made them fix it although they were reluctant. I had to tell them how to check to see if it was in phase. Sometimes the monkeys that work on cars are no more skilled than the monkeys that work at taco bell.

(no offense to the real mechanics, my dad has been a tech since before I was born)

 

[TwoLiterV8Eater]

Oh, by the way, I now know how to do everything timing belt related myself. I don't trust anyone else to touch it anymore haha.

 

[lowridin2g]

yea i dont trust anyone either but i cant do a t belt change myself yet, plus i have no garage to work in and mine is daily driven so if i f*ck up it would suck. anyways its going back tomorrow and i printed out that page, im giving it to them and ill make them drive it. problem better get fixed or ill just go to mitsu, get it fixed and then give the bill to them. i paid 275 to get it done, thats just labor, i brought all the belts. thank you guys for responding i really appreciate it.

 

[Jon H]

No problem dude, just let us know it all turns out for you.

You should maybe make a post in the regional section and see if there's any members in your area that could maybe help you perform a timing belt job. A lot of times, at least here on the West Coast, there's a bunch of people that will offer their assistance for pretty much a case of beer.

 

[lowridin2g]

i was just thinking this over. and not that i disagree with u but how does it hinder performance? because i know people buy the balance shaft elimination kits. or some people even just dont use the balance shaft belt. wouldnt it be the same deal except if u use the kit u gain a lil more hp? (frees up rotating mass) i have a kit myself sitting in my closet but i dont trust anyone installing it right now nor do i think its worht putting on the 7 bolt motor. cause it will just walk down the road anyway.

 

[wastefuldreamer]

dont run the car. i had the same noise in my car after the t-belt and only drove it around the parkin lot and got 8 valves bent

 

[TwoLiterV8Eater]

having your balance shaft out of phase and eliminating your balance shafts are totally different things. your rear balance shaft is 180 degrees off of its normal rotation, causing massive vibration that can result in serious damage. Removing the balance shafts altogether will not cause any excess vibration, it will only allow you to slightly feel the vibration that is already there.

Wasteful..if you bent valves it was not your balance shaft taht was out of phase it was your cam gears off a few teeth.

 

[custom240sx]

thats is what you get for letting someone else do it!

 

[Jon H]

Originally posted by wastefuldreamer
dont run the car. i had the same noise in my car after the t-belt and only drove it around the parkin lot and got 8 valves bent

Think about it. Now why would a balance shaft being out of phase cause a valve to hit piston? I believe the reason why you bent 8 valves is because your timing marks were off or the belt jumped teeth.

As for why it hinders performance? I'm not sure exactly. When I had the same problem you were having earlier this year, I asked about it on the SoCal DSM list and had a buddy ask Mike @ RRE.

Mike said -

I would drive the car and keep it under 4k rpm. Fix it as soon as practically possible. It will bug the hell out of him more than do any damage.

As for the other dude, he basically just said he autox'd his car with the balance shaft out of phase and was averaging 1 second slower than before.

 

[lowridin2g]

welp i dropped it off this morning, guy just called me and said he was really sorry and embarassed the balance shaft was off. says its fixed now. well see when i go pick it up later.

 

[wret]

You are lucky. The exact same thing happened to me. I say you are lucky because you got yours fixed. Mines still buzzing. I suspected that's what was wrong with mine too. I just could not convince my mechanic of that. He thinks it's fine.

Maybe I'll take it back and make a deal with him: If he doesn't find anything wrong I'll pay. If he does, I don't

 

[lowridin2g]

just got it back and its all better. whew, he said he was really sorry and that it was one tooth off. so happy its finally done and over with for another good 50k miles

 

[Jon H]

Originally posted by lowridin2g
welp i dropped it off this morning, guy just called me and said he was really sorry and embarassed the balance shaft was off. says its fixed now. well see when i go pick it up later.

Well at least the guy admitted that he was wrong and said he was embarrassed instead of trying to make excuses for it.

 

[TwoLiterV8Eater]

Everyone can make mistakes, but few are man enough to admit it an apologize. Sounds like you have a decent guy working on your car (although he really should start triple checking things before putting it back together). If anything, your mechanic will never make that same mistake again.

 

[jmc94gsx]

It is a common mistake to not follow the entire procedure in regards to not placing a screwdriver through the back of the block keeping the rear balance shaft in-phase