i think somethings wrong!!

[peregrine]

im at 22 psi, 118 leaded, got the afc leaned -18%, 650 inj., and im getting about 28* timing!!! this cant be good!! i just installed a 255 HP and it runs a little rich so i leaned it out a bunch. car feels fast but not as fast as it did with the 190. is there such thing as TOO MUCH timing? ill get an afpr soon. i got to trade my 190 straight across for the 255 HP so i couldnt pass it up. another funny thing is when i forst put the fuel pump in the base pressure was 44 with the hose ON but now its settled to 40 with the hose on. is thant normal? i feel like such a newb for the questions. thanks.

 

[zac83]

quit running leaded fuel... that might make your car run a bit better...

 

[rookieupgrade1]

I don't have a turbo but..........

I don't think that you can have too much advance in the timeing unless you are getting alot of knock. My N/T is normally around 32-38 deg. (No knock sensor but the thing pulls like crazy and runs great) I have even peeked at 42 deg. I think the leaded gas is a problem. Do you still have a cat on that car? leaded fuel will plug that up quick. I also got good responce out of boosting the base fuel pressure to 52 pounds. quicker throttle responce.

 

[kpt4321]

Shut up NT rookie boy.

As long as you are njot knocking, or at least not knocking a lot, 28 degrees of timign advance is not going to hurt anything. However, it isn't really that much better than 25 or 26 degres of advance, which is due to the nature of timing advance's diminishing returns.

The leaded fuel should not be the problem.

Why are you only at 22 psi?

Also, there is definately a possibily that you are too rich. In fact, I bet that is a big part of your problem. -18%, on 650's, on race gas, is probably very rich.

....Kyle T.

 

[Violater101]

Well, unless he has ARP head studs, I wouldn't be going much over 25psi. .

 

[peregrine]

Originally posted by kpt4321
Why are you only at 22 psi?
....Kyle T.

anything over 22 psi and the car breaks up at 6000 rpm. feels like a stuttering sort of. i figure its a spark problem. yes i closed the gap. to .23. still does it. ill get this all sorted out eventually. thanks for your input guys.


Well, unless he has ARP head studs, I wouldn't be going much over 25psi. .

yes its got head studs. torqued to 95 ft. lbs. im looking to run about 27-28 psi on the good stuff (118).

 

[1994supertalon]

I'm assuming you're not seeing any knock?? If so keep leaning it out till you start seeing knock and set it where you're comfortable.
I've had my car do the same thing before and kept thinking it was the plugs but I was just running rich.

 

[peregrine]

the problem with leaning it out is that the ecu sees less and less signal and gives it more timing. how much timing is too much? can i get away with 30*? thats seems like soooo much. i really need to get an afpr asap to remedy this.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by peregrine
im at 22 psi, 118 leaded, got the afc leaned -18%, 650 inj., and im getting about 28* timing!!! this cant be good!! i just installed a 255 HP and it runs a little rich so i leaned it out a bunch. car feels fast but not as fast as it did with the 190. is there such thing as TOO MUCH timing? ill get an afpr soon. i got to trade my 190 straight across for the 255 HP so i couldnt pass it up. another funny thing is when i forst put the fuel pump in the base pressure was 44 with the hose ON but now its settled to 40 with the hose on. is thant normal? i feel like such a newb for the questions. thanks.

im getting about 28*

whats your base timing set to?

another funny thing is when i forst put the fuel pump in the base pressure was 44 with the hose ON but now its settled to 40 with the hose on.

If fuel pressure at idle is set correctly, it should read 30-32 psi. If your gauge is showing 44 psi stock reg with the vac line i would guess your base FP is 50+ psi.

 

[loreak]

yeah with big injectors, the lower the injector duty cycle the ecu sees the higher it ups timing, some people have problems with too big of injectors, your timing gets too high but all you can do is richen it up to bring it down but then your running too rich

 

[pneumo]

Since you have a 1G you can retard the timing by adjusting the CAS. Use the AFC and AFPR to control fuel.

 

[peregrine]

ok, after screwing around with it all day ive come to a conclusion. i finally got it to run 24 psi with no hesitation by hacking the maf completely and running the afc -30%. then the bov is forced open (modded 1g) and the car feels like it hits a brick wall and sounds like it blew up so i turned the boost down to 22 and replaced the lower chamber in the maf and now its bucking again because its running too rich i think and the timing is up near 30*, *sigh* i guess ill just have to drop the cash on an afpr and the maf translator soon (i like my cars driveable). anyway i learned alot today so its not all for nothing. its interesting to watch my cars learning curve. its amazing to see what factors affect timing. cheers.

 

[autronicDSM]

By the way, to those asking if there is such thing as too much advance... yes there is. Read this http://www.sdsefi.com/techcomb.htm

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by peregrine
ok, after screwing around with it all day ive come to a conclusion. i finally got it to run 24 psi with no hesitation by hacking the maf completely and running the afc -30%. then the bov is forced open (modded 1g) and the car feels like it hits a brick wall and sounds like it blew up so i turned the boost down to 22 and replaced the lower chamber in the maf and now its bucking again because its running too rich i think and the timing is up near 30*, *sigh* i guess ill just have to drop the cash on an afpr and the maf translator soon (i like my cars driveable). anyway i learned alot today so its not all for nothing. its interesting to watch my cars learning curve. its amazing to see what factors affect timing. cheers.

whats your base timing set to?

 

[peregrine]

3*

 

[jdmawd]

Dude you are not going to want to hear this. I have read many of your posts regarding this new setup and your tuning mishaps. Its REAL clear you have absolutely no idea what you are doing. Dont take his the wrong way, or as me trying to bust your balls. You need to step back and get some serious assistance with trying to tune this car. some of the stuff you are doing makes no sense.

 

[set3422]

too lean and too much timing advance will delay exhaust stroke, therefore turbo will spool full boost at much later rpm. Most tuners can agree to tune little bit below stoichiometric value (14.7:1 or lambda=1 with wide band). So how rich? Most people try to tune lambda to .9 (or 12.6:1 stoich) Well we usually shoot for 12.3:1 (.88 lambda) with 5 deg retard on exh cam and 2 deg retard on int cam. Good luck.

 

[peregrine]

Originally posted by jdmawd
Dude you are not going to want to hear this. I have read many of your posts regarding this new setup and your tuning mishaps. Its REAL clear you have absolutely no idea what you are doing. Dont take his the wrong way, or as me trying to bust your balls. You need to step back and get some serious assistance with trying to tune this car. some of the stuff you are doing makes no sense.

hmmmm. did you read where i said that i need a fuel pressure regulator? theres not much i CAN do until i get one. theres not much to tuning a car jdm. you just have to have the right tools to do it. right now i have too much fuel pressure which leads to too much timing because i have to lean it out on the afc. basically i have to get some airflow signal put back into it before i can proceed. how is that not knowing what im doing? im trying to get it to run without having to spend more money which is nigh impossible at this point. the car runs decent right now but im really into NOT breaking the car. call me stupid...........

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by peregrine


theres not much to tuning a car jdm.

you're right and on that note im done sorry for posting good luck.

 

[peregrine]

Originally posted by jdmawd


you're right and on that note im done sorry for posting good luck.

thanks

 

[loreak]

you are right about lowering your fuel pressure, you can richen it up on the afc then and that will increase your injectors duty cycle so the ecu wont advance the timing as much

 

[peregrine]

Originally posted by loreak
you are right about lowering your fuel pressure, you can richen it up on the afc then and that will increase your injectors duty cycle so the ecu wont advance the timing as much

and you know this......man!!! just went and bought everything i need to put the aeromotive regulator on. god i love credit cards. that was a joke. credit cards are the devil.:laugh:

 

[loreak]

im layed off next week but i just bought a act 2600 on my credit card.......credit cards are god hahaha

 

[pneumo]

You can use the CAS to retard timing to a safe level, no matter what the fuel pressure, A/F ratio, or however big your injectors are.

The Cam Angle Sensor adjusts timing.
Use the AFC to tune the A/F ratio, then use the CAS to put the timing where you want.

Sorry, there's nothing to buy to do this, unless you don't have a timing strobe yet, but they're only about $35.

 

[peregrine]

to put my timing where i want it using the CAS it would have to sit at TDC or 0. that makes it slow to spool and off boost power is horrible. no thanks ill do this the right way.