Stage 3 vs Stage 5

[jazzyjay]

I have a T3/TO4E 50 trim/stage 3/.63 AR turbo. I am planing on buying the stage V(5) wheel an shaft, the AR will stay the same. So basicly thr turbo will then be a T3/TO4E 50 trim/stage V(5)/.63 AR.

T3/TO4E 50 trim/stage 3/.63 AR VS T3/TO4E 50 trim/stage 5/.63 AR

What would be the pro's and con's for doing this?

 

[DSM mechanix]

Pro:
-More flow
-Better top-end

Con:
-MUCH more lag (so Ive heard)

Many people suggest it not be used if the car is street driven...

 

[swordfish]

Why do you think you need a T350 (Stage 5) turbine on a 2.0L? I'll give you a hint. This wheel is not going to put a smile on your face. Not on a 2.0, not between shifts, and not below 48k. Happy lagging.

jeff

 

[dsm1kenobe]

if you want more power, i suggest going the .63, stage 3 / 60-1. this setup has less lag than a .63, stage 5 / 50.

 

[GSX4LIFE]

I will be using the stg5 So is GSXTCY in his PTE SCM61.
I talk to another person that has the BR580. He is getting 15psi at about 3900, and recovery is not bad either. AMS is saying 20psi on the street at 4000 with the PTE61. I read of another person saying that his 61 spools about the same as his Turbonetics 50trim, and feels much stronger than his 60-1 stgIII/.63a/r. So how is the stg 5 SO laggy?? This doesnt sound all that laggy to me. Hell, remember that some people ARE using P-trims. That thing is huge, and they are still getting adequate spool up on a 2.0L. I used to be all about spoolup. (Thats why I got the L2R) And it is fun. but I have really changed my attitude in the recent months. Top end is my main objective now

 

[nowayout]

60-1S with a stage 3 good boost at 4500 full at 5100 on my car.

 

[swordfish]

Originally posted by GSX4LIFE
I will be using the stg5 So is GSXTCY in his PTE SCM61.
I talk to another person that has the BR580. He is getting 15psi at about 3900, and recovery is not bad either. AMS is saying 20psi on the street at 4000 with the PTE61. I read of another person saying that his 61 spools about the same as his Turbonetics 50trim, and feels much stronger than his 60-1 stgIII/.63a/r. So how is the stg 5 SO laggy?? This doesnt sound all that laggy to me. Hell, remember that some people ARE using P-trims. That thing is huge, and they are still getting adequate spool up on a 2.0L. I used to be all about spoolup. (Thats why I got the L2R) And it is fun. but I have really changed my attitude in the recent months. Top end is my main objective now

Take it out of that PTE turbine housing and put it in a old style garrett 5 bolt and you'll know what I am talking about. You are basically talking about a stage 5 wheel in what PTE refers to as .49 ish AR housing.

jeff

 

[GSX4LIFE]

AMS is not using the pTE housing. One of the other people I spoke of is not using the PTE housing. I believe AMS is using the Ta34 housing. So are they lying? I have heard they are honest. Perhaps wiht certain wheels, the stg 5 is horrible. It seems to be working EXTREMELY well paired with the 56trim GT40 compressor(10.73 at 135mph, off the bottle)

 

[swordfish]

Look, I dont care WTF he does. I was just trying to help him not make a mistake. This has absolutely nothing to do with the PTE61 or what Martin is running with a full stand alone. This is about a dude with a 50 trim/stage 3 .63 AR who thinks he needs a stage 5 turbine.

Spool is not based on turbine wheel alone. Compressor weight, turbine housing design, blah blah, why the fock am I even wasting my time. I give up.

Put a stage 5 on that facker..... you will own everyone. Fock it, machine that bi*** out and put a .0375 shaft Q trim in it. It will stick out of the housing in some places but big is cool.

jeff

 

[GSX4LIFE]

Hey man chill out! Actually, I think he would be best staying with the stg3. But YOU should not come into a thread and make a commment like "Happy Lagging". Im sorry if you disagree with me. But this attitude of "super spool" needs to end. Spooling a large turbo, too quickly, comes with it's own set of complications.

 

[swordfish]

EDIT: Decided I didnt need to respond, so I deleted this paragraph. Think what you want.

* There is a reason that PTE doesnt even offer the 50 Trim paired with a T350 turbine*

By the way jazzyjay, sorry for hi-jacking you're thread. So back on topic. Why do "you" feel you need to step up to a stage 5 turbine? Have you measured exhaust pressure at the turbine and found it to be excessive? Actually, dont take info on this board with a grain of salt, call a reputable shop and see what they have to say. Happy motoring..... can I say that?

jeff

 

[Kingdom]

why not go bigger a/r?

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by swordfish


Take it out of that PTE turbine housing and put it in a old style garrett 5 bolt and you'll know what I am talking about. You are basically talking about a stage 5 wheel in what PTE refers to as .49 ish AR housing.

jeff

Just thought you would like to know the PTE turbine housings are .48 and .63 A/R and supposedly direct castings of Garrett units with the Mitsu flanges.

 

[swordfish]

I'm just going by what both Patrick and Jim of PTE told me during lengthy phone conversions with both of them while discussing the options of one of our P Trim PTE61's. Those bolt on mitsu turbos come with one size housing only as of right now.

jeff

 

[bigfoot]

.69 ?

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by swordfish
I'm just going by what both Patrick and Jim of PTE told me during lengthy phone conversions with both of them while discussing the options of one of our P Trim PTE61's. Those bolt on mitsu turbos come with one size housing only as of right now.

jeff

I've had them in my hand while talking face to face with Rod Short of PTE. They list them on their website (which seems to be down right now) as well.

They exist. (Maybe when you talked to them they were not out :shurg: )

 

[GSX4LIFE]

"Happy motoring..... can I say that?"


This is good. BTW, Im sorry if I offended you. Im not trying to be a dick to you. I have seen many of your posts Jeff, and I know you know what you are talking about. And like i said, I agree. He should not go with the stg 5. The stg 3 is a much better match for the 50trim. If you want more top end, go with an .82 a/r turbine housing. "BUT" This is not true for all compressor wheels. I just want others to know this as well. So are we still friends, err, Pals, uhh aquaintences?

 

[swordfish]

Jay Haas Rammstein.. You are right. Just called Patrick and he says they are now available and have been for a couple of weeks. I stand corrected.

This is good. BTW, Im sorry if I offended you. Im not trying to be a dick to you. I have seen many of your posts Jeff, and I know you know what you are talking about. And like i said, I agree. He should not go with the stg 5. The stg 3 is a much better match for the 50trim. If you want more top end, go with an .82 a/r turbine housing. "BUT" This is not true for all compressor wheels. I just want others to know this as well. So are we still friends, err, Pals, uhh aquaintences?

No problem

jeff

 

[RACER-X]

jeff, your crazy man, you need to calm down a little. ... i think you need to step away from your computer for a min. ( go run some 11.00's in your car for a while ) and come back a happier stress free man.

 

[swordfish]

Pauter is taking forever with the new long rods

jeff

 

[RACER-X]

man jeff, i thought you had already gotten those... damn, how much longer is he going to take? i'd be going crazy too by now. i've been without a dsm for 2 weeks this monday and i'm starting to loose it

 

[GRNDSM]

Well, I wasted half of last year running stage 5 wheel with .63 A/R. The compressor side was 60-1. The lag was TERRIBLE! Forget about lifting with such turbo!

I have no idea what exhaust wheel BR580 uses, but it did not look as big as Stage 5. I guess I will know soon enough as one of my friends just got BR580 and I often race his car for him.

Leon
RR

 

[bigfoot]

Just for kicks go to AGP's updated site and look at the RS60. It's a 60-1, and they claim 30psi by 4000 rpm. Must be a typo.

 

[nowayout]

I have I 60-1 AGP kit with a stage 3 exhaust right now and it's not 30 psi in any gear at 4k.
I'm exstremely happy with the kit.
But man does she hit hard when it spooled!

 

[GSX4LIFE]

OK. AGPs RS60 is a bolt on. Much smaller turbine housing, matched with the stg3 wheel, and I can see 30psi by 4000. The BR580 does use a stg 5 wheel(76trim T350). As does the PTE scm61. What you have to realize, is that wheels need to be matched correctly. The 60-1 works INCREDIBLY well with the stg 3 turbine. It will most likely not perform any better with the stg 5. The 50trim LOVES the stg 3. Likewise, it will probably not make any more power with the stg 5. Example: 50trim= 50lbs per min. So, on a perfect setup, this will net 500whp. Many are close to this with stg3. I doubt any gains would be seen with the stg 5. My buddy, on the other hand, loves his P-trim. And is making over 600whp. Would he make even close to that with a stg 3? (Granted, he uses a full T4, making the stg 3 a non issue, but makes sense, right?)


Something interesting I have learned... Power, gives a person, a false sense of "Fast Spool-Up" A turbo that doesnt reach full boost until 4500rpm may seem slow. But, if it hits very hard, and throws you back, the turbo will seem to spool fast. oN the other side of the token, a turbo that is power limited, but spools quickly, will seem not as impressive.

350whp, and spooling at 4500rpm. And, 550whp, and spooling at 4500rpm, are 2 very different things.