MUTT thrust bearing info.

[jdmawd]

First I would like to ask if the mods can put some effort into keeping this thread on topic. all the jdmawd fan club pictures and posts are very entertaining but the purpose of this thread is to share some failure information with other owners and those who are possibly considering buying a hybrid turbo from extreme-turbo.

Here we go....

First of all... Turbo did not have a 360 thrust bearing... and I will deem
this as one of the major causes of failure. Turbos that run at high
sustained boost levels should always have a 360 thrust, even the smaller
50 trim turbo.The shaft showed no discoloration or major signs of oil contamination. The compressor wheel is shot, the turbine wheel is shot, and backplate is slightly chewed up.

Oil contamination has been ruled out as the cause of the failure. This was my main reason for having this turbo repaired by an outside shop. It appears that these turbos use a junk thrust bearing, just some food for thought.

 

[2-0turbo]

You know, I just had my ETE32 fail too. BUT, I called up my distributor all irate and immediately blamed the turbo, based on your story and others I have heard on the net.

As it turns out, I lost a bearing in my engine that took out my turbo. Double-whammy! That was an expensive day, let me tell you. Who knows how the turbo would have done long-term. I have not torn down my engine yet, but I think I lost a main bearing. My oiling system is heavily contaminated with aluminum chips. This was the tell-tail. The bearings in the turbo are bronze and the presence of aluminum indicates an engine bearing. My first and only oil analysis I have had done on the Talon about 3 months ago showed high Lead and slightly elevated Tin levels. The lab flagged this for my attention, but since it was the first sample ever and we had no historical data on the car, it was hard to justify a teardown based on a single sample. I never made it to the next oil change date.

The bearing in the turbo is toast and it allowed enough play to allow my compressor wheel hit my housing. That makes the rebuild that much more expensive because I now need a new 50-trim too.

I plan to have the ETE32 rebuilt by another shop who guarantees they can build it solid. I mean after all, this isn't rocket science. It is still a standard Garrett CHRA, with the mitsu 7CM housing the only non-Garrett part on the whole thing. It will be interesting to find out if I have a 270 or 360 degree thrust bearing when it gets torn down.

I will know in several months. It is going to sit for a while--I'm in no hurry to throw more money at it. I have pushed my car outside and banished it from the garage!! It has to think about what it has done to me over the next several months while sitting out in the weather!!

 

[jdmawd]

I hear you, like you it was worth it to have an outside shop fix this turbo for as unbiased repair assessment. do you think ET would have admitted to a faulty thrust bearing? I sure don't.

 

[RocketBoy]

Is it possible to post pictures?

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

So the Thrust bearing wasn't one the ones on the bottom?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[jdmawd]

i dont know what a 270vs360' thrust looks like. i should have pics tonight.

 

[RocketBoy]

Are you willing to say what shop inspected the turbo?

 

[JoeGSX]

Well if the thrust bearing isnt the one in the pictures i say demand a refund.

 

[umiami80]

My Mutt is fine and probably will continue to be. I had one actually built by David Hall, bought it back in late 2001, it is an ETE-12, not the ETA, and is rated a little higher then the ETA, but I don't think I will get Mutt walk as I have been beating the shit out of the turbo for a Year allready and it is fine.


If it DOES go, I will get a GReen and be done with it.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by umiami80
I don't think I will get Mutt walk as I have been beating the shit out of the turbo for a Year allready and it is fine.


If it DOES go, I will get a GReen and be done with it.

Yeah I toyed with the idea of many different turbos from green *style* to full garret 50 trims, all the way back to a buschur 20G. I like the spool characteristics of this turbo and feel its a pretty good street strip turbo. with the build quality issues aside I feel its more then capable of my short term goals. Its a good turbo setup just not a lot of people run it.

Are you willing to say what shop inspected the turbo?

SlowBoy racing is handling the repair.

 

[NosLaser]

I'll say it again... As soon as Extreme Turbo and DSM Performance became 'Big Corporate Turbo' their quality went the same way as every other 'too big for their own good' shop. Instead of customer satisfaction driven, it's profit driven. I used to defend them till I was blue in the face a few years ago. That is because I knew what went into their product, and the knowledge and craftsmanship. Now, unfortunately, things have changed.

Regards,

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by NosLaser
I'll say it again... As soon as Extreme Turbo and DSM Performance became 'Big Corporate Turbo' their quality went the same way as every other 'too big for their own good' shop.

Aslan without getting things too far out of hand JDM's turbo was purchased LONG before ATR bought them out. Most of the people that have had the problems with their turbos bought them before that time too. Yes it sucks its just time to get over it and move on.

 

[NosLaser]

Yeah, good point. I guess he's had that turbo for quite some time. I would still say it wasn't built by Daniel which was kinda what I was getting at. I remember when The DSM Shop first started testing the Mutt turbos. That first turbo we got, we kicked the CRAP out of it. In fact, Daniel did little things to sabatoge that turbo so that it wouldn't last as long as a regular one in case we skipped town and didn't continue to do testing with him. We wrung it out to 30 pounds of boost on pump gas, it was street raced constantly, run at the track, we used that car to take customers for a drive to show how the turbo performed, etc. I honestly had a lot of faith in Daniel's work, and if I could guarentee he was building the product, I would still buy from him. Now, *I* can't even get through to speak to him. The cool days are long gone.

Regards,

 

[umiami80]

I'll say it again... As soon as Extreme Turbo and DSM Performance became 'Big Corporate Turbo' their quality went the same way as every other 'too big for their own good' shop. Instead of customer satisfaction driven, it's profit driven. I used to defend them till I was blue in the face a few years ago. That is because I knew what went into their product, and the knowledge and craftsmanship. Now, unfortunately, things have changed.



EXACTLY, i got my turbo before they were bought out so I got a QUALITY turbo, horray for me!@!!

 

[marshall]

Originally posted by jdmawd

First of all... Turbo did not have a 360 thrust bearing... and I will deem
this as one of the major causes of failure. Turbos that run at high
sustained boost levels should always have a 360 thrust, even the smaller
50 trim turbo.

The majority of Garrett turbos have the 270 thrust bearing and they've held up for years.
How much boost were you running?

Marshall

 

[jdmawd]

My turbo was purchased in February of 2002, im not sure when atr bought dsm-performance. Im pretty sure it was well after that, the most boost that I ever ran was 23psi. there was not signs of oil contamination and the turbo only had 1500 miles on it. I don't think many reason's are left as causes other then it was just built poorly.

 

[umiami80]

I FInally recieved my turbo In november but it was built during the Summer of 2001 by David Hall. Everytime I called that man he remebered me by Voice and even remembered my name and car AND mods. I didn't have the money to get the turbo, but he let me put money down of it, great guy, paid it off and he sent it ASAP, none of that 1 year waiting bullshit.


Great Turbo, It broke my Transmission!

 

[Slowboy]

Just came across the thread as I was stuffing a lunch down my throat... so I thought I would comment.

Very simply put, a lot of shops feel as if the 50 trim ( 54 mm wheel ) does not need a HD thrust bearing ( 360 kit )... and some do not use it. This was the case here.... Just bad judgement.

In there defense, I have seen other ETE 32's with the 360 thrust. This is the first one I have personally seen without it.

No, the pictures of their thurst bearing's on there site was not found in this turbo.

Sorry JDM for taking so long, we will get you back out there asap!

Regards

Mike Huml

 

[jdmawd]

To add insult to injury I just found out that the internal gate that I was assured to be 39 mm Is actually 34.5. thanks again ET does it work yes is that the point NO don't tell me im buying something that im not... did Leon ever get is specially built ball bearing MUTT?

 

[Stock Josh]

Did you like the turbo? Why or why not? Im so tired of these threads where people get on the net and gripe about turbo failure. It happens all the time. You wanna play, you pay. Ive had turbo failures before, a lot of us have. Why do people just jump on the net and try to slam said company? Ive had a Buschur turbo fail for gods sake! But I didnt jump up and complain. I learned and got another one. Now ( down the road ) I switched to an ETE32. I like it. Had it a couple years. It works GOOD. Big deal, whats important is if you LIKED it. Did it perform well for you? If it didnt, well then, why not? Change your choice to something that will perform BETTER for YOU.

Stock Josh

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by Stock Josh
Did you like the turbo? Why or why not? Im so tired of these threads where people get on the net and gripe about turbo failure. It happens all the time. You wanna play, you pay. Ive had turbo failures before, a lot of us have. Why do people just jump on the net and try to slam said company? Ive had a Buschur turbo fail for gods sake! But I didnt jump up and complain. I learned and got another one. Now ( down the road ) I switched to an ETE32. I like it. Had it a couple years. It works GOOD. Big deal, whats important is if you LIKED it. Did it perform well for you? If it didnt, well then, why not? Change your choice to something that will perform BETTER for YOU.

Stock Josh

Good evening, and thank you for responding to my thread. Your advice is very helpful and I will take your opinion into consideration. I would suggest that you not make comments about a situation when you are not fully aware of the details and the history of the said company and my individual situation.

 

[Slowboy]

Did you like the turbo? Why or why not? Im so tired of these threads where people get on the net and gripe about turbo failure.

I think you are missing the point sir.

If you tell your customers you are receiving a 360 thrust bearing, and a 39 mm flapper..... Then you should get what you pay good money for. I think not having what he paid for was his only gripe.

Regards

Mike Huml

 

[umiami80]

Wait, there was false advertisement, these turbos did not come with these accesoroes?

 

[Violater101]

Same thing happened to a good friend of mine. Didn't have the 360 thrust bearing and said 39mm flapper. Not sure what ETE it is, but its a 60trim turbo (I think thats the ETE32 or 42). Anyhow, I think the point is you shouldn't be advertising something in your product and then not put the said parts in the product. It's really sad basically that this happens.

 

[RocketBoy]

Oh yeah, I posted a while back after talking with someone there and questioning them about their well-known 39mm internal flappers. The response is that they will do them on special request only and they're a huge PIA to fit in. I was told that something along the line of only 5 in the last year or so had 39mm flappers (and this call was made before X-Mas 2002). Apparently they didn't upsite the website's info. and expected it to be shared by word of mouth??