Building new engine from the oil pan up

[RipperXX]

ok.. my target is 400WHP i know i can get this with less effort but it MUST be reliable as hell too and easy to tune.. I am going to use a 20G and i would like to keep my fog lights far as FMIC's go now since i dont know alot about these engines yet (learning pretty fast though) i am going to ask you fellow DSMers a favor...

list from literly the oil pan up the best engine parts and in total all parts needed to make the best preforming/reliable engine posible $$$ is no issue...

i know this is alot to ask and i will stay on top of this thread if you have any questions as to stuff i do and or do not like... I want a stand alone fuel system and i was just reading up on the AEM ones... well anyway guys I will be so greatfull to you guys if you would do me this one thing..

I also know it will take alot of time to actuly do what im asking if your only going to do it half assed then plz dont waste your time becouse i realy would like you to recomend to me ALL the best parts for building a whole new "Dream" engine (4G63)


and in advance THANK YOU!!!!

 

[RocketBoy]

Well I do admire what you want out the engine, you may need to get a few things straight. 400hp is obtainable on pump, but you really have to know what you're doing. You should probably kiss your fog lamps good bye now. Lastly, it won't be impossible to tune, but a stand alone is not a cake walk, especially if you haven't messed with one before or have little experience w/ DSM's. That being said:
Crower rods, Ross Pistons, ARPs throughout, HKS cams, maybe some head work from a well known place like BJ's, as far as turbos go, you have a lot to choose from (L2R, Green/Red, 20G, many more) and a spearco 2-216 front mount. That's a start, others will take it from there.

 

[RipperXX]

thx... btw though i am looking for as much detail as you can stand to type up on the parts (brand, size, type etc.)

and are all 4G63 blocks the same? if not which is the best?

 

[candela]

Well ripper Ill chime in and assum that many will agree with me when I say this, but that is obtainable on your stock motor. I would say just as easy as if you have built motor but thats only if you take the time you would on spending the oney on parts, to tune and rebuild yoru current motor. Most all agree that the stock motor in your car is pretty good. A 90-92 6 bolt is what most saught after when building.

Anyhow Id recommend that if 400whp is your goal then just rebuild, no need for a full forged internal build up.

Stock (no knife edge or any crap like that) crank, clevite rod and main bearings, arp rod and main bolts, stock 90 "big" rods, 2G 8.5:1 CR pistons and rings in stock bore and make sure you get someone trusted to do the mchine work on the block. As for the head, just refresh it with some new valves, seals, maybe a 3 angle job, valve guides and if you plan on revving the nutts out of it then maybe consider getting a crower valvetrain instead of stock. Id get some HKS 272/272 cams also. No real need to port the 1G head to much for that goal in mind.

Anyhow you really dont even need all of that. You could take the money youd spend on all that crap and just find a nice 30-60k motor with good compression/leak down and buy it and then spend the rest on other crap. Im not saying 400whp is easily obtainable, but you know if youy search around these forums you will find people say time and time again that these motors can withstand ~450whp on completly stock internals. A standalone is definetly not necessary....


Austin

 

[RipperXX]

I know it is not necessary, and i am going extreamly overboard/overkill on this only for 400WHP...BUT like i said it MUST be extreamly reliable.. and i may after i get it tuned correctly and get used to the car atempt to push it more to the 450-500WHP rang asumeing the stock drivetrain can take the abuse i am going to give it at thoughs outputs (although i know my 2100 clutch wont :/ )

my objective is not just to obtane 400WHP but like i said to have the engine so damn strong that i will not EVER have to EVER worry about it.. far as breaking a rod or frying a bearing etc. in otherwords no matter what i put this engine though i do not want it to blow.. now like i said plz give me a list of the BEST parts, and no more of this (you dont have to do near this amount of stuff to get that amount of HP) plz.

I know youd just trying to help and I thank you for that but as i said thats just not how i want this engine built...and to be honust thats mainly becouse once i get that 400whp and i start to get used to it and maybe get burned by a well built up V8 im gona of corse want more HP this way i will already have the internals i need and wont have to worry. also like i said it just gives me pice of mind which you can't put a price tag on..especially when your engine has almost 200,000 miles on it so i want to built a whole new one to drop in becouse i can not aford a month of downtime to rebuild this one so im just going to get a MBC and gauge set it to 15psi and leave it stock untill i have the other engine ready..

 

[chrisAWD]

i'm in the process of building a 6 bolt. I went with ross on eagles even though I probably won't be pushing more than 350 crank hp. The reason was cost. for about $50 more than 2g pistons you can go ross(if you figure in rings, machine work on big rods, pistons themselves). And for about another $200 you can do eagles instead of the big rods. again, you save on machine work to recondition the rods, and again on having the pistons pressed in, since the ross/eagle setup is full floating.

personally, this is what I would do/am doing even though it is overkill:

-ross on eagles .020 overbore.
-balance shaft removal(more reliability^^^keep it related to original posters request)
-ARP main's and head studs. no need to buy rod bolts as the eagles come with them.
-replace front case/oil pump, ALL timing stuff(pulleys, tensioner, belt obviously)
-all gaskets replaced with MITSU stuff.
- NEW head, i dont' trust rebuilt heads, and for like $750 you can get a brand spanking new one from connecelli.
-i'm tired of typing now so i'm done.

 

[RipperXX]

Ok, this is the parts so far, this is NO where near all the parts to build the engine.. and what about intake? exhaust? ignition systems? yea i would like all interals listed too, but thats not all there is to a engine...

Crower rods
Ross Pistons
Rings
HKS Metal Head Gasket
HKS cams 264/264 (I know i was told 272 but i hate rough idel's on non V8 powered cars)
20G turbo
Fluidline radiator
spearco 2-216 FMIC
balance shaft removed
ARP main & head studs
clevite main bearing

Also i think i am going to go with Extream's ported and polished 3 angel head, since it comes complete with bronze guides, Stainless Steel Swirl Polished valves, oversized exhaust valves, Titanium Retainers, Race Series Springs.. although $2000+ is kinda alot.... but i guess since all i have to do is order it and bolt her on (yea right) then it's kinda worth it.... or could i get a head complete with all that for less somewhere else? (i know i said money was no issue here but im not stupid not gona spend $500 more than i have too)

 

[RipperXX]

Oh one other thing, is the stock oil pump enough?

 

[98TsiAWD]

your stock block/rods/crank/head are fine. But I would get 95-99 8.5:1 pistons with a .020 overbore. You have to get these machined to fit the 1g "big rods" whihc you have in your stock motor. People say the 1g big rod/2g piston combo can take over 500whp.
Now if you are persistant on only the best parts etc get a motor built from www.ffwdconnection.com They also sell the 2.3 stoker motor.

Just take a look at the parts they offer:

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[RipperXX]

"your stock block/rods/crank/head are fine. "

well not to me.. so like i said plz help list all parts i will need not just internals to make the best/strongestreliable engine posible..

 

[candela]

Well they are for the rest of the DSM community. What your saying is that you want to spend a lot of money on something that is not needed in any way, you dont know your goals (as you changer from 400-500whp), you think that a built motor is more reliable than a stock motor, you don't feel like searching for the parts yourself and you want to hear what the "best" parts are in which its all a matter of opinion

Im sure you will get a lot of help

 

[red91tsiawd]

why don't you go to sbr and tell him to build u the best of the best. he is a top dog in here and knows what he is doing. the best part is he will do the turbo ad all for you.
thats what austin did(the guy telling you toleave it stock).

mike

 

[twenty5psi]

yeah and plan on updating the drivetrain to handle that HP too while your at it..not just the engine..good luck..

 

[62-1gsx]

hey man if you want a head and block already built, and is probably what you want check out this link, the guy wants 3k for both but he has a whole set up that is pretty bad ass that you would have to ask him about, its all brand new, I was going to buy it but I decided against it, bought some other stuff instead.
Here is what the guy has though :
2 GEN HEAD DPR stage V head 3 angle valve job 1mm oversized valves bronze valve guides full port and polish with knifed intake and exhaust side also cleaned the head shaved some for better lubrication this is identical to the stage 3 buschur 2GEN BLOCK bored 40 thousandths crower rods clevit 77 bearings knife edged crank total seal rings converted 95 pistons to full floating balance shafts removed fully balanced and blueprinted same as stage 3 buschur This motor has not been ran yet its complete
HERE IS THE LINK: so you can email if you want
http://www.gopartstrader.com/cgi-bi...t&prev_action=search&session=3e88fc2936f34d62

and as far as the drive train, I would go with TRE (team rip engineering)
they did my tranny and tranfer case, good prices too, check out their website too

 

[candela]

why don't you go to sbr and tell him to build u the best of the best. he is a top dog in here and knows what he is doing. the best part is he will do the turbo ad all for you.

Not quite...but close

 

[RipperXX]

62-1gsx, THX... for only 3 grand vs like umm o 10 i guess i'll go with the pre built head and block THX! again..

hmm and he's in tennessee thats even better not along way off...

idealy though I would like to be able to literly jump from 400whp to 500whp by a magical switch but as close to that as i can come i guess will be a very well tuned AEM stand alone.. i was wondering could you setup two air/fuel maps? so if i was to say restrict the intake and exhaust a little and have the correct air/fuel map for the resitrictions it would lower m y whp alot for pump gas like to 400whp?? and then remove them and switch maps (can you do that?) and jump up to 500whp for race gas...

 

[RocketBoy]

Yes, you can save as many different air/fuel and timing maps as you want with the AEM.
At this point, I would say start doing research or call Buschur, Magnus, or a host of other well known Mitsu guys and tell them to build you an engine. This stuff doesn't just magically come together. People have tried many different combinations and there is very little empirical evidence to support what is the absolute best part out there. It's going to come down to a matter of opinion, thus the research that you'll have to do.

 

[RipperXX]

(was kinda hopeingyou guys have been around long enough to know the better of the best parts though)

but thats great news about the AEM im defently going with it now that i know that. *grin* ahh 400whp on pump and 500 at the track... ahh im happy now damn now i just have to save up the cash im gona call today about the head/block.. well thx for all your help guys now i just gota save up the $$$ and order the parts install, tune and enjoy

be about 4-5 months teal i get to the enjoy part though

 

[RocketBoy]

err...never mind.

 

[RipperXX]

huh? what were you gona say did you atuly build up a list like i asked? if so post it anyway plz i would like to see it (if thats what you were gona do)

 

[RocketBoy]

You asked. I was just going to say that I wish I had a dollar for every one of these stories about the ultimate build up that someone with no idea what they are doing was going to build. And I wish I had another dollar for every single one that didn't come true or blew up. But since that isn't very nice, I elected to write "nevermind."

 

[RipperXX]

oh , well sorry to disapoint you but I am going to do this, although I am not going to do the "Ultiment Build up" that would take me a yr or more to save for, I was just wanting to know the best parts so i could try to get the closest parts to them for the least amount of cash.. but since I was told about the raceing engine up there im going to get one from the guy only i think im gona ask for Ross pistons insted of the 2G one's and maybe one of the crank shafts that has the airfoil effect insted of knife edge.. but i guss i'll just leave that alone.. be cheaper and i dont it makes much of a deference.. so anyway in about 4 months I should have the $$$ soo im gona order one then and drop tha bi*** in along with a better manifold and BOV, uper and lower IC pipes and leave it like that untill i can aford to do the whole fuel system etc. correctly to support a 20G turbo... so all in all the thing should be finished around mid Augest to September...thats IF everything goes like i hope it will :/

 

[RipperXX]

damn just realised im going to miss the best times to race.. damn it.. im gona want to see what she will do once im done.. *serious tone* "better be a ####ing strip open some where"

 

[candela]

You asked. I was just going to say that I wish I had a dollar for every one of these stories about the ultimate build up that someone with no idea what they are doing was going to build. And I wish I had another dollar for every single one that didn't come true or blew up. But since that isn't very nice, I elected to write "nevermind."