Web Cams 546/547

[~97TalonTSi~]

Ok, here's the deal...I put Web Cams 546/547 grind in my car and as I expected, the car doesn't like to idle now, but it's actually stalling. I know the timing is perfect...double checked and the car runs great and there is a noticable increase top end. Wondering the best way to adjust the idle and also...is there a posibililty that my IAC is not doing its job and I need a new one? For now all I have done is adjust the idle set screw on the throttle body but have heard this is not a good way to do it. Any opinions on this would be great.

Thanks
Erin

 

[ProjectGSX]

To get my car to idle properly with the Webcams I:

Messed with the BISS. A lot.
Installed a 1G CAS and added some base timing.
Installed Venom Cam Gears and retarded the exhaust cam.

What I should have done:

Buy HKS cams.

 

[NosLaser]

Well, if... nevermind. I would hate to clutter the board with intelligent responses. Good luck with your cams.

Regards,

 

[jdmawd]

noslaser please explain you point of view on this matter. I want to buy cams buy the end of the week. give me you impression of the webs and explain the differences from the hks cams? I have zero-first hand experience with either, im sure you can shed some light on this subject. the web cams are bashed almost as much as dsm-performance turbos.

 

[ProjectGSX]

Originally posted by jdmawd
noslaser please explain you point of view on this matter. I want to buy cams buy the end of the week. give me you impression of the webs and explain the differences from the hks cams? I have zero-first hand experience with either, im sure you can shed some light on this subject. the web cams are bashed almost as much as dsm-performance turbos.

The correct way to install cams is to degree them. If you do that, you won't have any idling issues. However, most people do not have the tools or the skills to degree cams. One method of thinking would be that if you can't do something right, you shouldn't do it. However that is a bit idealistic in this case. The HKS cams run great without being degreed. It would seem that the production tolerances are larger with the Webcams, so they really need to be degreed.

 

[dsmtrance]

Ok. This may be a dumb question, but how do you degree cams? What I really want to know is can it be done with the head off the car? I have the Web Street cams going on my head when I get the head back from the shop and if it's something that can be done while the head is off then I'll just have the shop install the cams for me. B/c they should know how to do it, right?!

 

[jdmawd]

so in order to degree cams you need adjustable cam gears correct. i have no interest, or intention on doing this work myself. i just want to know what to buy.my next big project is a ported head springs, over sized valves, retainers, cams, cam gears and an intake manifold. it makes sense to do it all at once. does anyone think its a bad idea to do all this at Once?

 

[NosLaser]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=980&perpage=25&pagenumber=2

Information overload on cams. Read on, but I'm warning you, it's long.

Regards,

 

[ProjectGSX]

Originally posted by jdmawd
so in order to degree cams you need adjustable cam gears correct.

Yeah, the adjustable cam gears let you make whatever changes are deemed necessary during the degreeing process. You generally pull the engine to degree cams because the degree wheels are very large. Crower makes a smaller degree wheel, but because it is smaller you might have accuracy problems with it.

 

[Geovannie]

Originally posted by jdmawd
noslaser please explain you point of view on this matter. I want to buy cams buy the end of the week. give me you impression of the webs and explain the differences from the hks cams? I have zero-first hand experience with either, im sure you can shed some light on this subject. the web cams are bashed almost as much as dsm-performance turbos.

Originally posted by jdmawd
Like I said my mouth is to big not to put up big numbers, the glazers have been very helpful with my build up. That's who I listen to not the internet.

BTW, I have webcams and they idle fine. If I where to actually buy them new I would buy HKS. I got these at a good price though. I plan to sell them soon for some 272s. Honestly JDM I would go with HKS cams if I where you. The owner of my cams originally got a bad set and went through the same thing that people complain about. They gave him a new set and they have worked fine for him and now me.

 

[jdmawd]

upgrade path is one thing, product selection is another. good observation, however i am very aware of what i post and when, but thanks for the reminder.

 

[larryd]

i seem to here nothing good about the web cams.. Ill let everyone know how the Crower;s work out for me once I get the car runing again

 

[doug]

Originally posted by NosLaser
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=980&perpage=25&pagenumber=2

Information overload on cams. Read on, but I'm warning you, it's long.

Regards,

Aslan, great tutorial on cams! I'm learning more every day. In fact, just the other day someone on the SoCal DSM list posted this link to the HowStuffWorks web site about cams. It covers a lot of the stuff you mention in your post, but with pictures and animations, so knuckleheads like me can understand it. Maybe one day, I will....

 

[rdrkt]

JDM: How many times do you need to ask the same questions about cams? What hasn't been answered 12 times before? The link the Aslan put up is a thread that you were involved in and its not even that old.

IMO you cant beat 272s with a stick. They will idle much better and make better power out of the box. What more can you ask for?

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by jdmawd
so in order to degree cams you need adjustable cam gears correct. i have no interest, or intention on doing this work myself. i just want to know what to buy.my next big project is a ported head springs, over sized valves, retainers, cams, cam gears and an intake manifold. it makes sense to do it all at once. does anyone think its a bad idea to do all this at Once?

I don’t think its a bad idea to do all at once as long as you have a competent person doing your install work. Personally I don’t think your turbo setup merits a sheet metal intake manifold. I don’t know if the bang for the buck would be there. The car would be a lot more driveable with the stock intake manifold.

 

[NosLaser]

...IMO you cant beat 272s with a stick. They will idle much better and make better power out of the box. What more can you ask for?...

The idle is debateable, because some people like the lopey idle of the Webs, however the HKS cams are a little smoother at idle. As far as the power, I would beg to differ. The big misconception between the HKS and Web cams when talking about size is this. The HKS cams are measured at 1mm of lift, whereas the Webs are measured at .05" of lift. Without knowing that fact, the HKS cams appear to be bigger, however the Webs are actually the bigger cams.

From my own personal experience, going from HKS 272's to Webs picked about almost 3mph on a car that was running 117 traps, and bumped it up to high 119 traps. Another example was Rich's car when it had the 16g on it. It went from 12.9 at 106 to 12.5 at 111 with nothing more than the Web cams and the tuning to go along with them.

Due to things like overlap, lift and duration, the Webs will make bigger top end power at the sacrafice of a little low end torque. Although my car used nitrous, I still made 5lb/ft of torque more than horsepower to the wheels with the Web Cams.

Regards,

 

[rdrkt]

Aslan your observation about the web street vs the 272s go against a lot of what I have seen. A good friend of mine went from the web race to the 272s and he made a lot more power. Same thing with Marco from Magnus. Also most of the DSMs in the street class are running 272s. Do you think that your tuning may have come into play on your cam change.

Also I don’t particularly find the lack of vacuum at idle cool. But then again there are people that vent their bov to the atmosphere so there is no accounting for taste. Personally with my prothane motor mounts the car really starts to vibrate when it gets below a certain vacuum level. I think that if you degreed a set of webs and degreed a set of 272s it would be fairly close. But out of the box just throwing both in I think the 272s are going to be better because they wont be so far off from where they are supposed to be.

 

[jdmawd]

JDM: How man times do you need to ask the same questions about cams? What hasn't been answered 12 times before? The link the Aslan put up is a thread that you were involved in and its not even that old.

do you use drugs? show me my post on that topic?

oh and its man*y* not man

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by jdmawd


do you use drugs? show me my post on that topic?

oh and its man*y* not man

Doh! My bad

 

[NosLaser]

...Aslan your observation about the web street vs the 272s go against a lot of what I have seen. A good friend of mine went from the web race to the 272s and he made a lot more power. Same thing with Marco from Magnus. Also most of the DSMs in the street class are running 272s. Do you think that your tuning may have come into play on your cam change. ...

It could be the other way around as well. The Web cams have more lift and more duration, so they will make more power. A 3 gallon bucket will hold more water than a 2 gallon bucket. That's all I mean by that. I think when push comes to shove, the Web cams will make more power than the HKS, however I'm sure there are cases where they don't. A 16G will make more power than a 14B, but some people don't. That's all.

Regards,

 

[jdmawd]

ok then web cams it is

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[Eclipselover91]

I have the 546/547 web cams and they are perfect not degreed timing set as normal on stock cam gears these cams are bashed a lot by the folks that just don't know how to work with them but here I am not knowing what throttle body to get for my application we don't all know everything but in some places we do and some we don't but I don't regret the web cam install they are loaded with power