Buschur Coil on Plug - P0300 - Random Cylinder Misfire?

[majik2k5]

Hopefully a simple fix, for my sake.

I'm in the process of getting my Talon back up to it's full potential, and thus' far things have been going smoothly, minus a few minor things.

The car is running Buschur Racings' coil on plug ignition, and seems to be having a few problems. Occasionaly, the car will misfire and throw a CEL through DSMLink, of Random Cylinder Misfire.

I've researched, and I've found this to be caused more often than not by a 6 bolt swap into a 2g, which I have. My question though, is concerning the car under boost.

I was on the car a few days back, and around roughly 5k RPM, the car seems to want to buck, and kick. It feels to me like fuel cut, but with only running 20psi, there's no way I should be experiencing fuel cut with a Walbaro 255 and FIC 880 injectors.

I'm curious if this could be related to the Coil on Plug setup. Any insight is helpful. Thanks guys.

 

[GVR4592]

Check for boost leaks and post a datalog of the bucking.

 

[gsx951]

Hopefully a simple fix, for my sake.

I'm in the process of getting my Talon back up to it's full potential, and thus' far things have been going smoothly, minus a few minor things.

The car is running Buschur Racings' coil on plug ignition, and seems to be having a few problems. Occasionaly, the car will misfire and throw a CEL through DSMLink, of Random Cylinder Misfire.

I've researched, and I've found this to be caused more often than not by a 6 bolt swap into a 2g, which I have. My question though, is concerning the car under boost.

I was on the car a few days back, and around roughly 5k RPM, the car seems to want to buck, and kick. It feels to me like fuel cut, but with only running 20psi, there's no way I should be experiencing fuel cut with a Walbaro 255 and FIC 880 injectors.

I'm curious if this could be related to the Coil on Plug setup. Any insight is helpful. Thanks guys.

The coils used in the COP have have different dwell time requirements than the OE coil. The bucking you are experiencing in a missfire due to the coil.
Either get some kind of CDI-(Dynatek ARC-2 is the preferred unit and is available from JNZ and RRE), or go back to stock.

COP without a CDI can't hang with the OE system.

 

[Staytuned]

A simple fix for now would be gap the plugs down til it goes away. I had the same problem at first also, brought the gap down to .22" and it's fine now ..... up to 30 psi even.

 

[gsx951]

A simple fix for now would be gap the plugs down til it goes away. I had the same problem at first also, brought the gap down to .22" and it's fine now ..... up to 30 psi even.

Is a .022" gap really a fix? COP on it's own does not work as well as the stock system.

If you can't afford a CDI, put the COP on a shelf until you can. The OE coil puts out 100mJ and that spanks any of the coil on plug kits.

This is what you need: http://www.dynaonline.com/english/news/arc-2.pdf

 

[Staytuned]

Is a .022" gap really a fix? COP on it's own does not work as well as the stock system.

If you can't afford a CDI, put the COP on a shelf until you can. The OE coil puts out 100mJ and that spanks any of the coil on plug kits.

This is what you need: http://www.dynaonline.com/english/news/arc-2.pdf

It worked for me and it can work for him.

I said temp fix .... not perm fix

 

[gsx951]

The best temporary fix would be to remove the COP and use the OE system.
Maybe you could spend some time reading up on how an inductive ignition works ?

A COP system without a CDI is a large step backwards in terms of ignition system performance, that Sir is fact.
Why would I suggest that someone close up their plug gap in order to run an inferior ignition when he already has one of the best systems available?

 

[slowgsr]

be sure that your valve lash is set correctly.

 

[Kezden]

Would a MSD DIS-2 work just as well as a CDI?

 

[Mike 99GSX]

An MSD DIS-2 is a CDI.

You guys should pay attention to people that give correct advice instead of flaming. It is an established fact that the COP are an issue in a stock inductive ignition system. When a CDI is introduced everything changes in terms of coild dwell.

The car will perform BETTER with stock coils and no CDI than it will COP and no CDI. What is so hard to understand about that? Decide if you want to go fast and not have issues or if looking sweet is more important.

 

[gsx951]

Would a MSD DIS-2 work just as well as a CDI?

Yes, a DIS-2 will work but the ARC-2 is a superior CDI.
There are a lot of threads on here documenting MSD failures, plus the ARC puts out more energy than even the HO versions from MSD and requires no tach adapter.

 

[Kezden]

well crap-balls...
after searching through the forums and finding the mass posts of failures of the DIS-2 (overheating in all) i'm going to sell mine...
so i've been googling and can't find a dealer for the Arc-2.
Anyone know where i can pick one up at?

 

[Mike 99GSX]

well crap-balls...
after searching through the forums and finding the mass posts of failures of the DIS-2 (overheating in all) i'm going to sell mine...
so i've been googling and can't find a dealer for the Arc-2.
Anyone know where i can pick one up at?

I have had CDIs do weird things when seeing too much radiant heat. My advice with any CDI box is to mount it in the car instead of the engine bay.

 

[Kezden]

Yeah I was going to mount under the glove box, or in it...
So...in either situation as long as there is a CDI present, then getting the COP setup should be alright...?
the only reason i've decided to get it is due to mounting problems with my 6-bolt swap and intake manifold. So if I understand it the COP setup rids you of your Coil pack, and plug wires, therefore leaving the wiring harness plug sitting there, and that plugs into the CDI, then that plugs into the COP.

 

[Mike 99GSX]

So...in either situation as long as there is a CDI present, then getting the COP setup should be alright...?
.

Yes.

 

[Kezden]

awesome!

 

[gsx951]

i've been googling and can't find a dealer for the Arc-2.
Anyone know where i can pick one up at?

Road Race Engineering and JNZ

 

[absolute_DSM]

Dynatek CDI 95-99 Eclipse and Talon turbo $379.99 + the cost of the COP setup ~$200

the only reason i've decided to get it is due to mounting problems with my 6-bolt swap and intake manifold

What a waste of money. I found absolutely no problem with remounting my coil pack and transistor. Those were the easiest brackets to fab on the entire car. I guess to each their own!

This is very interesting thread. VERY good info gsx951.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Did the OP even bother adjusting the plug gap? The idea was apparently ridiculed and tossed out by the looks of it.

What a waste of money to not even try it and jump straight for the CDI.

 

[gsx951]

A mismatch in dwell is what prevents the COP sytems from performing properly. The coils being used are small, low inductance units. This is not widely understood.

Can you adjust the plug gap down and make them work better? Yes.
Can you make them work as good as the O.E. system? No, not unless you add a CDI.

Here's a nice primer on inductuve ignitions. this is the type of system we have on our cars.
Pay close attention to the issue of dwell.
Introduction to Inductive Ignition
"With inductive ignition systems the time taken to charge the ignition coil is called the ‘Dwell'. This dwell can be increased or decreased for differing engine applications. If longer spark duration is required to improve combustion of lean mixtures or engines with large cylinders the dwell time is increased, inputting more energy into the primary coil. Dwell time is decreased when there is more than enough spark energy to combust the mixture, this decrease will reduce spark plug wear, therefore increase spark plug life. "

NZEFI - Performance Tuning & Development

"Although "coil-on-plug" types do not need an HT lead, these are not ideal because the space constraints make it difficult to design a high inductance coil. As a result these typically these have low-inductance (they charge very quickly). Their small size also makes them incapable of handling the increased heat that results from using high current/dwell. The result is that these typically store and release about half as much energy of a good coil being charged to higher current."

Here's a page from Delphi with some documentation on their coils. Note that none of the Delphi coils match the 100mJ of output that is produced by the O.E Mitsubishi coil.
Delphi Ignition Coils

What we have from the factory is really hard to beat.

 

[Mikael SS]

Did the OP even bother adjusting the plug gap? The idea was apparently ridiculed and tossed out by the looks of it.

What a waste of money to not even try it and jump straight for the CDI.

It probably would solve this misfire issue, but that would also be decreasing the performance of the car.

Combustion isn't an explosion, its a burn. Larger gaps, stronger spark, more spark plugs etc all result in a better running engine, the reasons for it i'm not going to spend the time to type out.

If you want to learn about it, look at AMG engines. I know the 5.5 V8 uses 16 spark plugs.

 

[Staytuned]

Did the OP even bother adjusting the plug gap? The idea was apparently ridiculed and tossed out by the looks of it.

What a waste of money to not even try it and jump straight for the CDI.

Thankyou for this .... it works very well for me and has no miss fires up to 30+ psi on a 3065 turbo.

Have I ordered an ARC-2 CDI ....yes I have. But to not even try gapping the plugs down as a temp solution is absurd.

 

[98evoIIIpwr]

GSX951. Thank You, tremendous help