1G Major teardown - a few questions

[Calan]

Sorry for the long post ...

I've got my car torn apart for some (major) maintenance and upgrades, and have a few questions.

I bought the car about 3-4 months ago, and immediately decided that the PO had no business with a wrench in his hands . They had the motor rebuilt by a shop somewhere between 12k -20k ago, and installed everything themselves. Every possible place that can leak oil... is. Some parts looked like they were replaced, and others (that obviously should have been) look like they have the original 112K on them. (see my post about burnt lifters: those two burnt ones were factory 1G stock and collapsed... the rest were new 2G's. I have yet to figure out how you end up with 14 new lifters and 2 original bad ones... but I digress).

Anyway, just about everything is apart, short of the motor coming completely out. Here's what I'm doing so far... all replacement parts are factory Mitsu except performance pieces:

1. Tranny is out for rebuild; will be replacing the clutch, flywheel, fork, pivot and slave cyl seals/rod. Also new flywheel and balancer bolts (balancer is new).
2. Entire front of motor is pulled; replacing all timing components and water pump
3. Replacing front/rear crank seals, rear crank seal gasket, oil pump seal, oil filter housing seal, cam seals, angle sensor seal, VC gaskets, etc.
4. New rubber and clamps on all coolant lines; new thermostat and radiator hoses.
5. New exhaust mani, turbo, and O2 housing, along with all new studs/bolts/gaskets and banjo fittings. Factory port-matched Evo III from mani to O2. New oil feed from filter.
6. New cams and revised lifters. Probably going with FFWD 264/272 combo on the cams.
7. New shocks and springs: KYB AGX and Eibach Pro Kit. Maybe urethane bushings, if I can talk myself past the PITA factor .
8. New motor mounts. Either prothane, or something a bit less stiff. Still not sure on this.
9. Fixing all the brittle/broken wiring on the coolant sensor harness and alternator/oil pressure harness.

Several other things were already done before the teardown (FMIC, Slim fans, etc).

Now for the questions:

I don't know how good the work is that the shop did, as I don't know exactly where they left off and the PO took over. So...

1. If I pull the front cover (balance shafts are removed), is there anything to look out for? I would like to replace that gasket also, and it would make replacing the oil pump and front crank seals easier I would think.
2. I've dropped the oil pan to fix it and the leaks around it. (they raised the motor with a floor jack placed dead center directly on the pan, below the pick up tube and smashed the crap out of it. Luckily it didn't get into the tube).

A) I want to inspect the bottom end... what should I look for?
B) Should I check the torque on the rod and main caps, or could this cause more trouble than it's worth.
C) Should I remove and clean the pick-up tube, and replace the gasket?
D) Do you guys use an aftermarket gasket, or stick with the RTV for the pan?

3. Should I re-torque the head bolts, or again... could this cause problems that I don't yet have?
4. Anything I've overlooked?

Thanks as always!

 

[Eclipse99GST]

Let's see here. I'll do my best.

1. If I pull the front cover (balance shafts are removed), is there anything to look out for? I would like to replace that gasket also, and it would make replacing the oil pump and front crank seals easier I would think.

Yes it does. When mine was off, I just made sure everything was clean and not looking screwed up.

A) I want to inspect the bottom end... what should I look for?

Basic stuff. Make sure nothing is wrong.

B) Should I check the torque on the rod and main caps, or could this cause more trouble than it's worth.

I would. I don't see how it could hurt it.

C) Should I remove and clean the pick-up tube, and replace the gasket?

I would. Mine was dirty when I had mine apart. Clean it up real good and replace.

D) Do you guys use an aftermarket gasket, or stick with the RTV for the pan?

I got my Oil pan gasket from Advance Auto. Put that on as well as RTV.

3. Should I re-torque the head bolts, or again... could this cause problems that I don't yet have?

Well, you said that every place is leaking oil. I would pull the head, replace with a good headgasket (I use Cometic) and then put in some ARP's. Torque them down and you are set.


4. Anything I've overlooked?

If it is leaking, don't think about it, just get a new gasket. You be happy that you did.

Hope this helps.

Erik

 

[Calan]

Well, you said that every place is leaking oil. I would pull the head, replace with a good headgasket (I use Cometic) and then put in some ARP's. Torque them down and you are set.

Well.. almost every place

I don't have any oil/coolant issues that make me think there is a problem with the HG, but I also don't know what they put in when they built the motor.

I was thinking about pulling it and replacing the gasket and studs, but without knowing what they did as far as surfacing and so forth, how would I know I'm getting the right HG? Also, the back half of the motor (intake and everything) is still all hooked up.

 

[pneumo]

While you're in there I'd check the oil pump clearances and check the gears for signs of wear or scuffing. Port the pressure relief hole so the oil pressure doesn't go too high at high rpm.

While the oil pan is off I'd pull the rod caps off one at a time and check the bearing clearance, plastigage should be accurate enough. Look at the bearings and crank for scratches or signs of scuffing.

If the rod bearings are bad take a close look at the main bearings next. It's possible to check the thrust bearing clearance while it's still bolted up, just use a feeler gage like it says in the manual. (you do have a repair manual, right?) It's possible but difficult to replace the main bearings with the engine still in the car.

If the HG is holding, I'd leave it alone.

 

[Calan]

While you're in there I'd check the oil pump clearances and check the gears for signs of wear or scuffing.

There is very slight scuffing where the faces of the gears ride against the housing and cover, but it is very minor. The gears look brand new and are very smooth. Haven't checked clearances per spec yet, but they should be fine. The motor was rebuilt less than 20k ago, and the cover isn't mitsu...so I'm guessing that and the oil pump was replaced then.

Port the pressure relief hole so the oil pressure doesn't go too high at high rpm.

Did this yesterday. Hope I did it correctly

While the oil pan is off I'd pull the rod caps off one at a time and check the bearing clearance, plastigage should be accurate enough. Look at the bearings and crank for scratches or signs of scuffing.

If the rod bearings are bad take a close look at the main bearings next. It's possible to check the thrust bearing clearance while it's still bolted up, just use a feeler gage like it says in the manual. (you do have a repair manual, right?) It's possible but difficult to replace the main bearings with the engine still in the car.

I'm still debating if I wanna mess with the bottom any at all. If anything, I was thinking I may check the torque on the rod and main caps. I'm kind of thinking if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If the HG is holding, I'd leave it alone.

Yeah... same reasoning as above.

While I have your attention

1. The rear of my crank has a very slight (maybe .005) groove, about .25 wide... where the seal would ride. Is this machined into the crank, or is it just worn from the seal? (please have the right answer )

2. What are your thoughts on gasket sealer and RTV for various gaskets?

Thanks for the help

 

[pneumo]

There is very slight scuffing where the faces of the gears ride against the housing and cover, but it is very minor. The gears look brand new and are very smooth. Haven't checked clearances per spec yet, but they should be fine. The motor was rebuilt less than 20k ago, and the cover isn't mitsu...so I'm guessing that and the oil pump was replaced then.

Sounds good,

I'm still debating if I wanna mess with the bottom any at all. If anything, I was thinking I may check the torque on the rod and main caps. I'm kind of thinking if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

That's true, but how about these catch phrases;
you never know until you look.
While you're in there.

Then again when the rod bearings in my Laser were worn beyond factory specs the motor had low frequency vibration whenever I tried to accellerate when rpms were below 1500. That vibration went away after I swapped in new bearings. Did you notice any vibration at low revs? This isn't a foolproof diagnosis since odd vibrations can come from other areas, too.

While I have your attention

1. The rear of my crank has a very slight (maybe .005) groove, about .25 wide... where the seal would ride. Is this machined into the crank, or is it just worn from the seal? (please have the right answer)

Are you talking mm or inches? If it's mm, I wouldn't worry. If the groove is 1/4" wide it sounds like the sealing surface was re-surfaced. Was the rear main seal leaking?

2. What are your thoughts on gasket sealer and RTV for various gaskets?

Thanks for the help

I strive for a perfect seal, although I'm not always successful. I like to clean off all gasket surfaces down to the bare metal, then wash it with brake parts cleaner so there's no oil or residue.

I don't like to use any extra sealers on paper gaskets since it tends to make the gasket slide out of place when the parts are torqued down. The exception is when you have a part that is hard to seal, in this case I'll smear a very thin, even coat of RTV on the paper gasket and let it dry for about 15 minutes so the RTV is thicker but still pliable so it can squish into any grooves or deformations in the sealing surfaces of the parts.

misc thoughts: For motor mounts, use the prothane front and tranny mount, keep the stock mounts in the rear and drivers side. This will keep vibration low enough so it doesn't rattle everything on the car, yet still hold the motor and tranny still enough for good shifting performance. Just make sure the rear and drivers side mounts are in good condition, not torn.

I assume you're going to hammer out the bottom of the oil pan to regain capacity and add clearance below the strainer? I've rounded the bottom of my oil pan for a few extra ounces of oil capacity.

 

[Calan]

If you've followed my other posts... hammering out the oil pan is a necessity because the previous moron.. err.. I mean owner... apparently jacked the motor with a floor jack dead center on the oil pan.

As far as gaskets... I've cleaned everything with a razor blade, wire brush, brake cleaner, baby wipes, spit... you name it . I built a few motors back in the day, but that was back when pulling it apart to fix a leaky gasket took an hour max. I'm paranoid about the real seal more than anything else. I'm not anxious to pull the tranny again just because my new rear crank seal and gasket decided to barf oil.

And yeah.. the rear seal was leaking. Like every other possible oriface on this motor. I don't know what THE HELL the people that built the motor or put the short block into the car were smoking, but it must have been some good stuff.

On a side note: I pulled the tranny (which started all of this) due to a noisy intermediate shaft. When we tore it down, there was like 12412654654213 lbs of black RTV EVERYWHERE. I'm guessing the same morons that built the swiss cheese motor also rebuilt the tranny.

EDIT:

oops.. forgot your other question. I didn't have any vibrations or anything. The car was running fairly decent, except for knock everywhere. Which I'm guessing was caused by the tranny issue and two OEM lifters that were collapsed and completely locked up. (don't get me started...see my other thread about that one ). And the 1234153 oil leaks.