Dynoed Today (AGP L2R)

[larryd]

I know some of you may be interested in the results. So here goes..

Mod List..

1st Gen Throttle Body (60mm)
1st Gen Intake Manifold (60mm)

2nd Gen Ported Head
Crower SS 1mm Oversized Valves
Crower Springs & Retainers
1990 Eclipse Cams
Crower Cam Gears

2nd Gen Ported Exhaust Manifold
AGP L2R (turbo)
Victory Performance O2 Housing
Tial 40mm External Wastegate
Large Greddy FMIC
3" Dejon Tool Intake
Greddy Upper & Lower IC Piping
Greddy S Type BOV
Apexi 3" N1 Exhaust
Apexi Down Pipe & Cat Bypass
Taylor 10.2mm Wires
NGK BP7ES Plugs
Hallman MBC
Bosch 650 Injectors
Supra Fuel Pump
Charged Air Fuel Pressure Regulator w/1st Gen Fuel Rail
DSMLink w/ 95 Eprom ECU

I started off at 17psi on pump gas and for the life of me I cant get the car to stop knocking. We set the air/fuel ratio just right using the wideband and the car still pulled 6 degrees of timing which just killed the power. I only managed 270whp @ 17psi, ofcourse if I ever get the timing fixed on pump gas Im sure it would have been around 305-310whp at 17psi which isnt to shabby.

Now for the interesting part. We drained all of the pump gas out of the car and put in C16. I turned up the boost a lil more and a lil more and started messing with the timing settings on the DSMlink and the power just kept going up and up before i finally called it quits. I managed to do a 3rd gear pull from 4-8k at 28lbs of boost with no knock. I managed 383whp and 379torque. Here is the graph..

http://www.newcelica.org/larryd/dyno/12-07-02-dyno1.jpg

Im happy with the outcome of 383whp and 379 torque but I think thats a lil to much boost to run to get that power out of this setup. I would be happier if I was only running say 23lbs of boost to manage that so Im not sure whats next for me.

 

[Black_90TSI]

Sounds like some good numbers. Hope you get the knock figured out. A friend of mine that has a big16g and supporting mods is looking to get about 375whp on 23psi. How do these two turbos compare.

 

[insane147]

you should have tried pump gas after the changes to see if it was the gas or settings making knock....

 

[HighPsi91]

375whp on a big16g is a bit of a stretch.

 

[larryd]

a stretch, more like imaginary

and insane147, the knock had nothing to do with the settings, its definitely fuel related. I made minor adjustments with the fuel like -2% lean and added 1 degree of timing.. nothing that would make for 6 degrees of timing retard..

 

[BryanK]

hum.... eh, a little dissapointing after hearing how b@dass this turbo is, but I'm sure you've got a lot of room for improvement on that setup. I have no doubt whatsoever that you'll see bigger numbers later on when you get things figured out. Even so, 383 whp is pretty powerful. Just out of curiousity... how were your injectors doing at 28 psi? I was under the impression that you'd be maxing out 650's at that kind of psi, and that you'd be better off with 750's... but hey, what do I know.
Good luck getting it figured out.
BryanK

 

[larryd]

hehe, you sure you didnt read my post in fuel tuning forum about maxing out injectors?? my duty cycle was 97% on the 650s @ 28psi..

I was a lil disapointed that I have to run that high of boost to get that power but I know the power is there considering Im still on stock cams and I know I have a boost leak on my throttle body.

 

[Violater101]

Knock sux amazing that you got zero knock running that much boost. How much was you advancing the timing? I havn't looked at the graph, but just incase, what A/F did you tune for ?

 

[larryd]

the air/fuel was in the 11.9-12.1 range

I was on straight C16 and had NO knock @ 28psi.. pretty nifty

I only advanced the timing 1 degree..nothing incredible.. just trying to get a lil extra to beat out GSX4Life

 

[Z1500]

The TQ #'s look on par for about 430+hp but ether tunning or cams let the power drop off at top end. Did you ever figure out all the knock problems? With all the problems you've been having I'm actually impressed the thing made any power.
Two questions-
Is this dyno known for reading low? (what have other people dyno'd on it)
Do you have some logs (DSMLink) you can send me?

Kevin

 

[larryd]

no the dyno isnt known for reading low.. Ive never heard of a dyno reading low..

Everyone else seemed to be perfectly fine and happy with their #s today, I mean Dave GSX4Life put down 372whp at 25psi with close to the same setup as me except he has HKS cams and Im on stockers.

I had NO knock on the 28psi run, I had all kinds of knock on pump gas..

and yes I have the DSMlink files I can send if you tell me where to send em.. Ill send you the 17psi log and the 28psi log.

 

[Violater101]

Mustang dyno's have been known to read low, but i don't think that was what they used.

 

[larryd]

no, this was a dynojet.

 

[Z1500]

That's why you can never accurately compare different cars that were run on different dynos. Very common to have 5-10% difference in readings.

Send logs to [email protected]

 

[larryd]

yes but you can compare cars that were run on the same dyno on the same day.. and I just sent two of my logs

 

[Z1500]

Rule of thumb is that anything over 90% injector duty cycle and you have no fine control over the fuel. 750's would be a good idea.

 

[Fathouse]

Why where the runs made in 3rd gear?

Fathouse

 

[larryd]

I was fine with duty cycle on almost every pass up to the 28psi pass. Thats just to much boost to be running on the 650s obviously. But I also didnt expect to have to push 28lbs of boost to manage 380whp. Hell I wasnt even upset at the 380, im more upset about the 270 at 17lbs of boost with no knock.

 

[larryd]

Originally posted by Fathouse
Why where the runs made in 3rd gear?

Fathouse

becuz I run to 8500 rpms and I did not want to be doing 170mph on the dyno.

 

[Fathouse]

Well, to get true HP figure's you must dyno in your 1:1 gear, which in most car's is 4th gear.

Fathouse

 

[larryd]

im aware of this, but the difference between running 3rd and 4th gear on the dyno is minimal. a few hp at most..

 

[Violater101]

Well, i'm sure you would have made alot more power if you had advanced the timing and was able to get around 22 or so with no knock.

 

[fastalon]

u know im kinda dissopointed on the #s..no offense...i mean i heard that this agp turbos are bad ass and u put down as much as a 16g would.thats just sad......yes i know u had knock and tuning probs...but still...thats not that much.....and even with the c16 383 is alot but i have seen more.....but i was leanign towards a l2r but it doesnt seem to make the power.....i dotn want to run 28psi........but o well i ll stay infroamed on your progress and see if it does better.....

 

[larryd]

since when do 16gs dyno at 383whp?? please dont compare apples to oranges.. 383 is still a very high number, its just a matter of how you get there?

 

[95GST]

This just show how bad pump gas is...! Other people make more power on pump gas with the AFC because they cannot see the knock, their timing is artificially boosted, and since they can't see the knock, they keep leaning it out till around 12:1 A/F, these two things make good power (even if it might be knocking)

With the DSMLINK you're doing the opposite, you're trying to get rid of the knock that you see, sp you richen it up.. I'm pretty sure you won't be around 12:1 on pump gas if you were tuning for no knock. So you're running pig rich and low timing = slow.