3" UIC Piping - Overkill?

[Dred]

I have 20 hours to decide whether or not I will buy UIC pipes, they're priced real cheap cause they're a bit used. I'm thinkin, w/ my setup, would it be overkill because of the pressure drop? Check out my Mod list (up to date) and tel me what you guys think, I'm planning on sticking w/ a sidemount for a while, and also plannin on a gmaft so the 3" would spare me the extra modefications later on. Input greatly appreciated.

 

[Dred]

also, they're stainless steel, I know aluminum dissipates heat better, how bad is SS?

 

[staticbrainwash]

There's a BIG thread on 3" intercooler pipes. Just search for it.

As for your mods, i think it would be WAY WAY WAY overkill. Why are you only running a b16g at 10psi? even on a stock fuel system you should be able to push around 13-15psi. Is this for a stock sidemount? If it is don't even bother, put that money into a walbro 190 , or 225 with an afpr kit.

IMHO, I don't say it's worth it. Just get some nice 2.5" ones, that will set you for A LONG time.

 

[Dred]

Well the reason I'm runnin 10lbs isn't because I can't push more, it's that I want to first get a hang for the car and break in the freshly rebuilt engine. I don't even have a boost regulator, the wastegate is hooked up directly to the outlet turbo pipe. What I guess i'm asking is would the 3" piping cause a negative effect over lets say 2.5" or same, because if the effect will be the same then I'll purchase these mainly because of the price. Thanks for the reply.

 

[staticbrainwash]

i bet most people who are running BIG turbos are only running 2.5" from their front mounts. So, 3" from a stock sidemount is almost stupid.i'm not saying you're stupid, but i think even with 2.5" you'd be just fine. Espically once you break in the motor and up the boost. I would honestly try to do some fuel stuff though. Upgrade to a 190 (you can use the stock fpr), maybe injectors. And if you DO get the gm-maft set-up, there are places who make uicp's that will work without modification. ( try dejonpowerhouse.com for theirs, and i think slowboy might have one too.)

 

[97gstnick]

I have 20 hours to decide whether or not I will buy UIC pipes, they're priced real cheap cause they're a bit used. I'm thinkin, w/ my setup, would it be overkill because of the pressure drop? Check out my Mod list (up to date) and tel me what you guys think, I'm planning on sticking w/ a sidemount for a while, and also plannin on a gmaft so the 3" would spare me the extra modefications later on. Input greatly appreciated.

im the one who started the thread for 3 inch intercooler pipes. i do have it, 3 all the way. i need to tune it a little better, but other than that it runs pretty good. i dont believe its overkill, but i have a 50 trim. once i tune it, im going to dyno it and post up the numbers so people can get an idea of how it does.

 

[staticbrainwash]

3" on a stock sidemount though? or on a fmic?

Also, have you gotten pressure drop #'s on the 3". Because there's a BIG difference btwn a 50trim and a b16g running 10psi on a stock sidemount.

 

[Dred]

I have read that entire post, and it has no conclusion. Arguments were made in both sides, in favour and against 3". My real question is will there be a negative effect, the price is an issue here, these are pretty cheap and already flanged. The dejon and other name brands cost a number of tmes more than these pipes are being sold for. And the pressure drop taking info from the other post isn't that much over a 2.5" and the difference in spool time that was actually calculated between 2.5" IC pipes long round and 3" long route on a FMIC was something like a 0.011seconds. If these will not out perform a 2.5" IC piping kit that's okay, but if they do worse that's bad, that's my only concern. And correct me if i'm wrong there isn't a difference whether I'm runnin 10lbs on a 16g or a 20g, the difference is efficiency at higher boost pressure and not heat soaking the IC. 10lbs is 10lbs.

 

[tstkl]

2.5.

 

[97gstnick]

i have a front mount with my 3 inch piping. i did not notice a difference in spool. a guy on here did a calculation proving that with 3 inch piping it was like such a small difference in spool its impossible to notice. like i said, my car needs a tune but i have not noticed anything bad with this piping yet. my future plans are for a jm smim with 75mm tb for maximum power up top.

 

[vintagemuscle]

also, they're stainless steel, I know aluminum dissipates heat better, how bad is SS?

ss is fine. buschur fmic kits use ss piping.

 

[MigTalon]

Aluminum piping is better... disipates more heat and a LOT less weight... and for me, on street turbo setup: 2.5 inch lower pipe with 3 inch upper pipe. Look at my mods... and pics.

 

[Newlogics]

If you're still running stock intake manifold and thorttle body, the there is absolutely no point of having 3" piping. You'r still reducing it down at the TB. Also, reducer-couplers, that you will need to use to mate 3" piping to your stock SMIC will create more turbulance and back-pressure, which will result in signifficant pressure drop and reduced cooling efficiency.

As for materials, the only serious advantage of alum. piping is weight reduction. Even though aluminum dissipates heat better, surface of the pipe isn't big enough to do any real cooling. Also, aluminum absorbs heat much faster too, so pping that runs through areas which are hotter then charge air will actually heat the air up. Given cost difference of aluminum vs. mild steel, I'd choose mild steel anyday. Stainless steel is probably on the par with aluminum cost-wise, so aluminum would pobably be a btter choice there.

 

[mirkoelek]

If you're still running stock intake manifold and thorttle body, the there is absolutely no point of having 3" piping. You'r still reducing it down at the TB. Also, reducer-couplers, that you will need to use to mate 3" piping to your stock SMIC will create more turbulance and back-pressure, which will result in signifficant pressure drop and reduced cooling efficiency.

As for materials, the only serious advantage of alum. piping is weight reduction. Even though aluminum dissipates heat better, surface of the pipe isn't big enough to do any real cooling. Also, aluminum absorbs heat much faster too, so pping that runs through areas which are hotter then charge air will actually heat the air up. Given cost difference of aluminum vs. mild steel, I'd choose mild steel anyday. Stainless steel is probably on the par with aluminum cost-wise, so aluminum would pobably be a btter choice there.

I agree with you, if you have stock tb you are just gonna make it worst. The biggest diameter of your pipes should not be bigger that you tb diameter, and it should be smaller than pipe before. As an example, if you go from the turbo, size of the piping should get bigger or stay the same before IC. After the IC go bigger again (or stay the same as your IC outlet) but before it hits the tb, it has to match with tb. I think 2g tb elbow should match piping too. 2g tb elbow is only 2 1/4", so if you go from 3" back to 2 1/4, it will create air confussion (or whatever it will happened) there goes drop of hp in upper end. I think whoever upgrade their IC piping 2.5 inch or bigger they should get bigger TB and TB elbow... Now im trying to buy 1g tb and make my custom tb elbow to match my 2.5inch piping...

 

[Dred]

Well, the pipes are gone, and I guess it's not that much big of a deal. On the good note however, i just got a 3.5inch gm mas for free, yay me

Also, I have a ported intake manifold, i do plan on getting a mustang TB and maching another tb elbow to it, then going the same diameter piping after the IC.

 

[mirkoelek]

Well, the pipes are gone, and I guess it's not that much big of a deal. On the good note however, i just got a 3.5inch gm mas for free, yay me

Also, I have a ported intake manifold, i do plan on getting a mustang TB and maching another tb elbow to it, then going the same diameter piping after the IC.

sell it and get 3" one, but 3.5" should be working fine

 

[1992awdlaser]

And correct me if i'm wrong there isn't a difference whether I'm runnin 10lbs on a 16g or a 20g, the difference is efficiency at higher boost pressure and not heat soaking the IC. 10lbs is 10lbs.[/QUOTE=Dred]

10psi on a 20g would create more power than 10psi on a 16g.

 

[97gstnick]

i totally disagree with people saying that 3 inch is bad because your tb elbow is small and all it will do is create turbulence. that i think is possibly true but highly overrated. think about when you put on an intake manifold. the new one has a bigger plenum and thicker runners but they taper down to the stock size intake ports (if you leave un ported). yet you still make more power. that is a lot like the same effect with the piping.

 

[staticbrainwash]

I agree that legistically it's not bad to an extent. But I do feel as though for people running smaller turbos or stock sidemounts, it would be rediculously too huge. That and 2.5" already looks pretty big in my engine bay with the 3" intake. I couldn't imagine 2 3" pipes trying to fight in there.

 

[97gstnick]

I agree that legistically it's not bad to an extent. But I do feel as though for people running smaller turbos or stock sidemounts, it would be rediculously too huge. That and 2.5" already looks pretty big in my engine bay with the 3" intake. I couldn't imagine 2 3" pipes trying to fight in there.

haha, yea. it does take up a little room. ill take a pic and show people my setup. ill put it in the thread i started.

 

[Newlogics]

i totally disagree with people saying that 3 inch is bad because your tb elbow is small and all it will do is create turbulence. that i think is possibly true but highly overrated. think about when you put on an intake manifold. the new one has a bigger plenum and thicker runners but they taper down to the stock size intake ports (if you leave un ported). yet you still make more power. that is a lot like the same effect with the piping.

The difference is that intake runners taper down gently, while step from 3" to 21/4 would be pretty abrupt.

 

[mirkoelek]

i totally disagree with people saying that 3 inch is bad because your tb elbow is small and all it will do is create turbulence. that i think is possibly true but highly overrated. think about when you put on an intake manifold. the new one has a bigger plenum and thicker runners but they taper down to the stock size intake ports (if you leave un ported). yet you still make more power. that is a lot like the same effect with the piping.

How many intake ports do you have??? You got 4. The size of the one port (or area) multiplied by 4 will be bigger than your 3" piping. So, you are still not able to overrun stock intake ports.
If is that what you mean.

 

[Turbocharged]

I made this post on a similar thead:

"I run 2.5" and definately wouldnt go smaller with your mods. It really helped my spool when I was on the 2.0. Anything larger would be harder to route but definately wouldnt hurt anything. Dont listen to the haters of the larger intake pipes. Take a fluid dynamics class and draw your own conclusions.

I did all my piping for less than $100... beat that dejon.

For those who THINK larger pipe diameters create pressure drop, you are greatly confused:

http://www.lytron.com/support/primer_pressure_drop.htm

Or more importantly, here is the equation for pressure drop for turbulent flow in a tube:

pressure drop = Dp = 4f(L/D)(½rV^2)

f = friction factor
L = pipe length
r = fluid density
v = fluid velocity
D = pipe diameter

Increasing pipe diameter will decrease pressure drop (although its not a real strong function of pipe diameter; its a stronger function of velocity). Also increasing the diameter will decrease the superficial air velocity (thereby decreasing pressure drop)."

 

[mirkoelek]

I made this post on a similar thead:

"I run 2.5" and definately wouldnt go smaller with your mods. It really helped my spool when I was on the 2.0. Anything larger would be harder to route but definately wouldnt hurt anything. Dont listen to the haters of the larger intake pipes. Take a fluid dynamics class and draw your own conclusions.

I did all my piping for less than $100... beat that dejon.

For those who THINK larger pipe diameters create pressure drop, you are greatly confused:

http://www.lytron.com/support/primer_pressure_drop.htm

Or more importantly, here is the equation for pressure drop for turbulent flow in a tube:

pressure drop = Dp = 4f(L/D)(½rV^2)

f = friction factor
L = pipe length
r = fluid density
v = fluid velocity
D = pipe diameter

Increasing pipe diameter will decrease pressure drop (although its not a real strong function of pipe diameter; its a stronger function of velocity). Also increasing the diameter will decrease the superficial air velocity (thereby decreasing pressure drop)."

The same amount of air would go thru the either pipe. By incresing the size of the pipe you'll help your turbo to push more air easier, where with smaller pipe your turbo will struggle more. Other thing, with smaller pipe your air will go faster and your spool time will drop but you'll have less air on higher rpms. i would say, size of the piping should match the size of the turbo, proportionally. With 16g no bigger than 2.5", 65lb/min turbo would benefit from 3" IC piping..

 

[Slippi84]

You sure got a lot of I think and maybe's in your posts I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and say you haven't tried diffrent sized piping, you just kinda noticed kt was the the norm and went with it. Lucky for you most of what you said is right the ammount of air you flow will be directly proportional to the amount of boost you run and turbo effeciency. So if your turbo flows 45lbs/min while at Xpsi no matter what size pipe you use you still flow 45lbs/min. How hard your turbo has to try to fill those pipes is where the diffrence is. There are of course trade offs. With bigger(3") pipin your turbo will not have to try as hard to flow the 45lbs/min but the drop in velocity will cause spool to be while very slight as 97gstnick has already stated slower. IN a nut shell with a turbo like a 16g where you will never push enough air to have 2.5 piping be a restriction there will be little or no benefit but it won't hurt either so to answer your question it is not overkill but more prefference. Witha turbo in the 65lbs/min ball park running 30psi that 3" piping would actualy alow the turbo to run more effeciently causing the amount of air to be flowed easier. By making the air flow easier or with less restriction(do not come on and say well why doesn't it work the same for the 16g because the 2.5 is not yet restrciting air flow because there isn't enough) you will actually makeyour turbo run cooler thus makin it more effecient. Now this doesn't mean everyone should go out and get 3" pipimg as these effects either for or against the 3" pipin are so small that with a properly tuned setup you might not even notice at all.