2 intake filters instead of 1

[91-gsx]

i was wondering theoreticaly if i could fit 2 filters on the end of an intake, would that add more power then having just one. i understand that 1 filter will only become a restriction if i am out flowing it, but wouldnt running 2 filters be just like running open intake, as in no filter at all?
thanks for the help, just asking out of pure interest.
later

 

[blcknspo0ln]

You will not gain anything by adding an additional air filter. Just get a nice 7" powerstack or KN filter and you will be perfectly happy with it. If you have not yet, upgrade your actual intake pipe. You will notice a SLIGHT difference in spoolup and spoolup sound.

 

[91-gsx]

well i thought you atleast gain some power. for example, many people run open turbo when at the track, why is this? i thought the less restriction you have the faster the spoolup and top end. i dont know were i read it on here, but some thread was talking about running open intake or not. the common thought was that the risk of getting something into your turbo and killing it was not worth the few extra horses. but then some guy claimed that when he took his filter off of the intake or turbo, that the turbo actually boosted 2 more psi, he also said he had to retune his mbc for 20 psi again sense without the filter he was pushing 22 psi. not trying to argue by why is a bigger filter generaly better then a smaller one, because of the increased area for which you can draw in air, right? so isnt this the same idea, more area to draw air form?
this might get interesting

 

[blcknspo0ln]

No, I understand your point. In theory you are correct, but the thing you must keep in mind is, will it really make a difference? I've used everything from an eBay filter, KN, stock, KN drop in, and powerstack filter and I have yet to tell a difference judging from the ass-o-meter. DSM racing has been a heritage for more than 10 years now, if using 2 intake filters were remotely any better than using 1, don't you think guys like Brent Rau and Shepard would be doing it?

Just a thought.

 

[91-gsx]

No, I understand your point. In theory you are correct, but the thing you must keep in mind is, will it really make a difference? I've used everything from an eBay filter, KN, stock, KN drop in, and powerstack filter and I have yet to tell a difference judging from the ass-o-meter. DSM racing has been a heritage for more than 10 years now, if using 2 intake filters were remotely any better than using 1, don't you think guys like Brent Rau and Shepard would be doing it?

Just a thought.

i see what you are saying, but the 2 guys you mentioned dont even use filters. there must be a reason why. i think running no filter on a 14b would still be beneficial sense project goodwill made a cold air intake that is front of the car and they did not use a filter. the closest thing to not having a restrictive filter is by cutting the duty from just 1 filter to 2 of them. when talking about increased flow, i like to think of running 2 filters like running open intake or open turbo, i think any car would benefit from running open intake, but we dont drive it on the street like that due to the fact that crap might fly into the turbo and mess it up. blcknspooln, have you ever run open intake? if so, did you notice a difference in anything?
im not trying to argue here, just trying to dig deeper.
thanks for the help

 

[RedRex02]

i see what you are saying, but the 2 guys you mentioned dont even use filters. there must be a reason why. i think running no filter on a 14b would still be beneficial sense project goodwill made a cold air intake that is front of the car and they did not use a filter. the closest thing to not having a restrictive filter is by cutting the duty from just 1 filter to 2 of them. when talking about increased flow, i like to think of running 2 filters like running open intake or open turbo, i think any car would benefit from running open intake, but we dont drive it on the street like that due to the fact that crap might fly into the turbo and mess it up. blcknspooln, have you ever run open intake? if so, did you notice a difference in anything?
im not trying to argue here, just trying to dig deeper.
thanks for the help

Well without running a blowthrough setup, you will not be able to even start the car if you are not running the maf, ie running an open turbo inlet. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[daren_p]

Well without running a blowthrough setup, you will not be able to even start the car if you are not running the maf, ie running an open turbo inlet. Correct me if I am wrong.

Yes that is correct, I think he was just trying to relate it to something else, not necessarly run no filter. As far as the "no element" goes yes it will make more power & quicker spool, this should be obvious, but common sense will tell you not to do this on a street driven car. The less the restriction, the more power can be made but by adding another filter Im not sure if this will actually change the restriction. This is my thinking, the turbo can pull in a certain amount of air depending on the restriction of the filter. Now with a good aftermarket filter such as k&n I don't think it will be the limiting factor, so I don't think adding another filter the same will have any effect. Now if a single filter was restricting the amount of air the turbo could suck in then obviously adding another filter to allow the turbo to suck more air would have an effect.

 

[zachakagoat]

Why not use the dual filter thing any? say If you have a front mount intercooler then put a filter down where the stock sidemount is and run a pipe to the turbo but also have a filter mounted right behind the headlight so you can remove the headlight at the track and get more air, just have the two pipes go into a single pipe when you merge them into the turbo. More air is more air, if you need it you have it if you don't then who cares it's going to be ready when you move to a bigger turbo that CAN out suck the air that gets to your filter.

 

[put2gether]

I don't see why 2 pipes wouldn't flow more than 1. I was looking at this lil' number.... http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/...tom-0/p-2005562/N-111+10201+600002038/c-10101
..once upon a time, but decided against it, because the filters were foam. You could always change the filters out and give it a try. If you just want something for the track, look at this .. http://www.racingsportsakimoto.com/prod_velocitystack.php .. pros use something like this.

 

[91-gsx]

I don't see why 2 pipes wouldn't flow more than 1. I was looking at this lil' number.... http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/...tom-0/p-2005562/N-111+10201+600002038/c-10101
..once upon a time, but decided against it, because the filters were foam. You could always change the filters out and give it a try. If you just want something for the track, look at this .. http://www.racingsportsakimoto.com/prod_velocitystack.php .. pros use something like this.

, i actually bought the same thing you have up there. that is why i started this thread. the one i bought looks like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...80996&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_IT

it is an exact copy of the hks style filters, it has a velocity stack in each filter. what is wrong with the foam element anyway, hks makes a kit for the 1g mas with the same kind of filter you see in the link. the filter they include has a foam element. i know they dont filter as much of the small stuff, but anything that will kill an engine comes in a bigger size then a micron.
but maybe there is something i dont know about the foam element and turbos or something.
fill me in, getting interesting,
later

 

[xveganxcowboyx]

This is what it comes down to.

-More flow=better power.

-Stock filter to performance filter yields signifficantly more flow. (enough to justify the expense)

-Performance filter to open intake yields signifigantly more flow (can be worth it for short term gain)

-Performance filter to dual performance filter potentially yields a LITTLE more flow. (not worth the expense)



The difference between one good filter and 2 good filters probably won't yield much flow and therefore won't yield much power. There is also the air turbulance issue which may make things worse.

 

[91-gsx]

This is what it comes down to.

-More flow=better power.

-Stock filter to performance filter yields signifficantly more flow. (enough to justify the expense)

-Performance filter to open intake yields signifigantly more flow (can be worth it for short term gain)

-Performance filter to dual performance filter potentially yields a LITTLE more flow. (not worth the expense)



The difference between one good filter and 2 good filters probably won't yield much flow and therefore won't yield much power. There is also the air turbulance issue which may make things worse.

actually i think that the way the intake pipe is designed makes the 2 ends merge to one rather nicely, no sharp bends or anything and they flow together. what i am trying to say is, 2 filters kind of creates an almost no filter environment. you have a lot more surface area to take air from, plus each of those filters has a velocity stack in it, which have been proven to make more power then a straight tube. the main purpose of buying this intake for me was to get the velocity stack at the end of it and i bought some 3" aluminum tubing to go along with this filters/pipe kit, so i can make a dual filter cold air intake. the second filter is just a plus.

 

[daren_p]

, i actually bought the same thing you have up there. that is why i started this thread. the one i bought looks like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...80996&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_IT

it is an exact copy of the hks style filters, it has a velocity stack in each filter. what is wrong with the foam element anyway, hks makes a kit for the 1g mas with the same kind of filter you see in the link. the filter they include has a foam element. i know they dont filter as much of the small stuff, but anything that will kill an engine comes in a bigger size then a micron.
but maybe there is something i dont know about the foam element and turbos or something.
fill me in, getting interesting,
later

There are a comple things with the foam filters. It appears some of the cheep knock off foam filters weren't designed for turbo charged cars and the filter element has actually been sucked into the turbo destroying it. Second from a test I saw posted, the foam filter was the worst as far as filtering goes compared to apexi, blitz & k&n) and it was supposed to be a real HKS unit that they tested.

 

[91-gsx]

There are a comple things with the foam filters. It appears some of the cheep knock off foam filters weren't designed for turbo charged cars and the filter element has actually been sucked into the turbo destroying it. Second from a test I saw posted, the foam filter was the worst as far as filtering goes compared to apexi, blitz & k&n) and it was supposed to be a real HKS unit that they tested.

very true, i already said they dont filter as well, but they flow as much air or more. the only way i can see sucking this filter into my intake is if in some way the plastic support beams that hold the foam element in place are too weak for the amount of suction. or if the holes on the foam filter were soo small that the suction actually closed the existing holes and created soo much vacuum that it got sucked in. doubt it though, especially with 2 of them.
later

 

[daren_p]

Actually even though the HKS filtered the worst, it didn't make the most power. The apexi which filtered the best also made the most power. I can't recall the rest of the order but I think the foam filter was near the bottom for hp as well . I would make sure you take a good look at the support frame before you install the filter to see how easily it can be sucked thought the frame. I have no idea of how much suction you really get but I would think it would be quite abit if your taking atmospheric air and compressing it to 15-20 psi.

Edit: Test for filtering best to worst: Apexi, K&N, Blitz SS, HKS Foam

Test for HP: Apexi, Blitz, K&N & HKS Tie

 

[91-gsx]

Actually even though the HKS filtered the worst, it didn't make the most power. The apexi N1 which filtered the best also made the most power. I can't recall the rest of the order but I think the foam filter was near the bottom for hp as well .

do you have a link to this test you are speaking of, i would like to take a look at it? from what i know hks makes great products that are aimed towards power an flow, that is why people try to stay away from these, they are known not to filter as well, but from what i have read on the net, most high powered cars use the hks type filters, but then again i usually see them on high powered supras, skylines, and rx-7's. plus this filters have a velocity stack built into them, which will smooth out the airlfow and create less turbulence, which inturn creates more power.
later

edit***
i just went on yahoo and found the test you are talking about, interesting stuff, but you notice how the hks filter made as much power as the k&n, they all made more power though. if you notice the dyno results, the hks and K&N filters made 13hp, while the blitz made 13.9, and the apexi made 14hp. not too much of a deferense to me.
link:
http://mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/

 

[kottyking]

I know what test he's talking about I'll try and find a link.

 

[put2gether]

, i actually bought the same thing you have up there. that is why i started this thread. the one i bought looks like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...80996&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_IT

it is an exact copy of the hks style filters, it has a velocity stack in each filter. what is wrong with the foam element anyway, hks makes a kit for the 1g mas with the same kind of filter you see in the link. the filter they include has a foam element. i know they dont filter as much of the small stuff, but anything that will kill an engine comes in a bigger size then a micron.
but maybe there is something i dont know about the foam element and turbos or something.
fill me in, getting interesting,
later

I don't know if anything is WRONG with the foam filters. I just whimped out after I read a post on here, in which someone said the filter material could get sucked into the turbo. I didn't want to risk it.

 

[sweet97]

Having the filter set-up to be a Cold Air Intake is the best idea. The denser the air the MORE air molecules there are. Denser air is "MORE" air. As was said the turbo will only draw the amount of air it needs, one or two filters. It's an interesting idea and you are sure putting thought into the workings of the motor Tony and that's GOOD! Mark

 

[91-gsx]

thanks mark. the way i see it is like this, say your filter can flow enough air for your turbo at any boost level, no matter what level it is at, if you take that filter away you will make more power even though the filter offers you great flow, it will never be like having 2 great flowing filters as far as ease to get the air, or no filter at all. im not saying, add another filter and double your airflow, im simply saying that the more area you have to draw air from the more air you can draw in at a given time. that is why we have bigger exhausts and intakes, because more area usually means more flow.
just my thoughts,
later

 

[91-gsx]

just wanted to update you all. i recieved the dual filter setup from ebay(same one in link above) and i was very disappointed to say the least. the pipe starts at 3" and ends up froking out to 2 2.5" pipes. the guy says it was a 3" intake filter, well both filters were 2.5" inlet filters and they were hella small. they were supposed to be 5" across the top of the filer, and they were, but the filter looks and feels very restrictive. they kind of look like muffins the size of most of our palms. dont even get me started about the "funnel" design, i have never seen a flat velocity stack(aka. funnel design), it was flat right at the rim of the velocity stack and it did not even look like a velocity stack at all. i will still make a cold air intake with a k&n filter and 3" tubing, should work well with this mod i just did for the 14b:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1843965&postcount=58
anyway, i emailed the guy and i am going to be refunded.
just wanted to update you guys,
later

 

[sweet97]

The area of 2 2.5" pipes is about 40+% greeater than the area of a single 3" pipe but these 2 smaller pipes are feeding into the 3" so that is the restriction besides the cheap filters. You tried Tony. Go back as you say to the single cold air intake and be done with it. mark