IC's...Air/Air or Air/Water? [Merged 7-7] intercooler liquid

[blackspyderGST]

is anyone out there running one? if so is it worth the money.

[fastalon]

yes i kknow of a few ppl....and i wouldnt go with any thing else...we have dynoed both the front mountand an air to water and the air to water makes a big big differance..yes it is definitly worth it

[crashed97tsi]

was it a custom setup or do they actually sell them?

[fastalon]

it is a spearco...im not sur eont he size...but it fits right net to the motor..and makes a huge power differance...i mean think about it u have liek a total of maybe 2 feet of piping if that...and compare that to a front mount and u do the math.....alot quiker spool up

[Nos~4G63]

Anyone tried to conver the stock smic into air/water. You just need a water jacket to go around it and a pump and reservoir. I want to do this but I am afraid to try something new.

[fastalon]

well the only thing u can do is try, go buy a side mount from a junk yard and try it...or if it doesnt work u still got anouthr one u can use...but just try u never know till u try..

[L2RTSiAWD]

The thing about a air/water is it's good on the dyno and at the track when you can pack it with ice but on the street it's just not that more effecient compared to the cost difference.

[rdrkt]

I agree with John. An a/w ic works fantastically on a drag car that makes on pass and comes back into the pits to get more cold water and ice. On the street that would heatsoack REAL quick.

[insane147]

the thing with smic is they usually have very small leaks where water will get in when not under boost, most likely when the car sits. so hydolocking is a major concern. be certain you have NO leaks before using it. water to air cooling has shown numerous huge benefits over air to air, most on the track.

[DSMSPOON]

i tried making one out of my freinds and lets just say that i had leaks up the yin tang with aluminum welding i did everything by the book so i scrapped it and bought a spearco thats the greatest investment....did a little modifying and put it on his passenger side and it really does go thru ice and water that much if the container and accesories are well insulated...it can run about 2 times on the trap and be down would still have cold water and ice in the tank....

[jdmawd]

why not just bolt up a sprayer, to your FMIC or SMIC? problem solved. im sure spraying co2 or n20 will lower intake temps, more then a bowl of ice water. when driving on the street the water gets hot and your screwed.

[rdrkt]

You can spray an a/a IC with whatever you want its still not going to equal the efficiency of a a/w ic with really short piping. An a/w ic will be able to lower intake temps well below ambient. An a/a IC will not come close to replicating that.

Running an a/w ic on anything other than a track only car is just silly any guy running one would tell you that. Even Shepherd runs an A/A IC a reasonablly sized one at that.

[fastalon]

Well to be honest two of my friends run Air to water on the daily drivers and both there engines are built one has a frank 3 and the other is jus ta 20g.....but they said its fine driving both on the street everyday and when they are on the track...and when u add ice yea it makes a big differance in power...but im still going ot go with an air to water mayeb the new barrel style..

[980VR41k]

I too have made a air to liquid intercooler out of two GVR4 stock ICs in parallel. Leaks were a pain in the @$$ to work out, but everything is holding fine now. I too will be buying a Spearco when taxes returns come, what I have works fine and cost next to nothing, but I rather have new with a great core.

As far a performance is concerned, it kicks ass. I have yet to stick a air charge temp gauge in to see what I’m running, but with temps around 80c and below with no ice the upper IC pipe is luke warm, easy to place your hand on while the lower is smokin’ hot. The IC system does hold these temp, as long as you’re moving air through the radiators (similar to the air to airs). With ice in the system the upper IC pipe is actually cold to the touch, cooler that the ambient air by far, and a noticeable power increase is felt (getting a datalogger soon to check timing advance).

I do stress to make sure that you use a large radiator for cooling your water. I started with using two 2’ tranny coolers in series (4’ of finned tube) and when the outside temps reach 90+ the water heats too much to be effective (pulled timing was noticeable and the IC liquid was toasty hot). I currently am using a large heater core from a truck which helped quite a bit, but still looses the ability to cool the water enough at 90+ degree outside temps. I’m going to be getting a small car radiator come summer, this is what I should have done from the start. My friend has a similar radiator system on his Spearco and has great results. These setups do usually cost more that your typical air to air and can be a bit more maintenance intensive, but the gains in performance and uniqueness are well worth the effort in my opinion.


Jason

[TSi92]

Originally posted by L2RTSiAWD
The thing about a air/water is it's good on the dyno and at the track when you can pack it with ice but on the street it's just not that more effecient compared to the cost difference.

Yes I was about to say that. Air/water intercoolers work great at the track and for dyno numbers. When daily driving they heat soak just like an air/air intercooler but the big difference is that when the water gets hot it takes forever to cool back down. You'll pretty much drive with a heat soaked intercooler until you shut off the car.

So in a nutshell, air/water intercoolers work best for drag race applications. For street driving or autox/road racing a good ol FMIC works best.

[insane147]

when you are off boost, the a/w intercooler is getting reveresed cooling also, as in the air your engine is using, going through the intercooler is drawing off alot of heat from the water. this may make it feel weak until you get air moving through and cool down the liquid also. i am also going to try a custom a/w intercooler this year, i will be using a RACTIVE extruded aluminum core approx. 18*10*3 with a honduh radiator and high flow SHUR_FLO water pump, also a 3 gallon res. from summit may be in the works.....yes i drive it on the streets, late at night and not too often, so im not very concerned with heat soaking.

[980VR41k]

I would have to say that heat soaking it is very dependant on your cooling system for your liquid. If you have a efficient radiator system your liquid temps say low. Even with my heater core as my liquid cooler I can drive for hours in 80 and below outside temps, pop the hood and place my hand on my upper IC pipe and feel that it's slightly warm, during night time temps it kicks ass (different story when the outside temp get near 90 degrees as noted in my first post, that's the only time I see heat soak, which is going to be fixed). Low liquid temp = low intake air charge temps, it’s a fight to keep the liquid cool. If you are heat soaking and your liquid temps are low then you need a larger core. Might also consider hooking the air con system into the incoming liquid for a super cooler at the flick of the air con button www.coolflow.com .


One benefit over an air to air is that at a stop light your water never gets the chance to heat up enough to dent the intake temps. By the time you launch the liquid running into your IC is still quite cool from the driving you did to get to the stop lights, you get cool intake charge temps right from the beginning. No need to get moving to remove the heat soak like on a air to air setup.

Jason

[Nos~4G63]

This guy sells his modified Merkur intercoolers for $300 http://www.merkurxr4ti.com/awicorder.html
I believe these are small enough to fit as a top mount.
Would it be cheaper to modify a stock DSM sidemount? Or is it not worth it due to the leaking? Are you all having problems with air leaking through the welds or through the core?

[spyderman]

Ok, here is another IC option I have been thinking about but haven't yet tried. Take the stock AC evaporator out of the ductwork, encase it an air box and route the IC piping through it. It could be used in conjunction with the stock IC for an extra kick at the press of a button. You would need to do the math to see if the HP gains from the lower intake air temp offset the HP loss required to drive the compressor. My guess is, it would be worth it!

[Enigma_Man]

Does anybody here run an Air - Water intercooler?

I've been thinking about making one up because of a few reasons:

The piping from the turbo can be extremely short. Out of the turbo, turn up towards the throttle-body, through an intercooler sitting in the nook in front of the battery (or move the battery to the back, and make a cold-air intake where the old SMIC used to be, to make lotsa room) and to the manifold.

Also, I'd think that fitting in another radiator would be easier than a FMIC, becasue it's thinner (I'd probably just use an actual radiator, and pump the hot water into the bottom of it, and take the cold water out of the top)

It just seems to be a good idea, although it adds a little bit more complexity to the car (pump/resivoir and controls)

Anybody have any feedback?

-Jesse

[candela]

Id like to learn a little bit more about these as well. From what Ive read, they arent to efficient for a daily driver and reuire more maintenance (obviously). I know they work great for drag racers though cause you can cool the nutts out of em before a run and not worry about anything else after that when it heats up...

[L2RTSiAWD]

There was just a thread on this.

air to water intercooler