Do I need a AFPR?

[crashed97tsi]

Sorry for the dumb question, but I did a search and could not find anything about it.

Ok, mods arre in my profile, basically I have a set of 550's and a 190lph pump being controlled by an SAFC/Logger combo. My question is my tuning was always a pain in the ass. I would never get consistent results, the car would always be running a little rich, like .93 - .94v. I read some reviews of AFPR's and people have said that their tuning was much easier after installing the regulator because of the steady fuel supply. While I understand this, the reason why I bought the 190 is because it supposedly does not flow enough to overrun the stock regulator.

But, in my searching I have found posts where people have said that you need a regulator with any pump. Now my question is do you think I need a regulator? I really cannot afford to waste money on this as I am on a very tight budget, but whatever my car needs it gets so I will get it but only if I need it. I was looknig at the dsmparts.com one, just to let you guys know

the link is http://www.dsmparts.com/customer/product.php?productid=403&cat=164&page=1

 

[DSM90AWD]

I ran a rewired- 190 for years with a stock FPR and had no problems. On a 2G with naturally higher base FP.. I see the risk being even less.

FYI.. the stock O2 sensor values are worthless when it comes to fine-tuning. On over rich condition can also come from boost leaks and as a result of knock (timing retard).

My thought is that since you don't list injector compensation in your mods list (EPROM mod) that you're 550s are not properly calibrated via your S-AFC (550s flow 22% more than 450s). What are your high settings?

 

[crashed97tsi]

Nah no injector compensation mod. DOes that mean that I have to adjust the low and high settings by 22%? This always confused me because In Kpt's tuning guide he says 1% on the afc is like 3-5 on the logger, so that is always how I tried to tune things. It never seemed to work tho.

So, if the o2 sensor voltages are useless, is there anything I could use to fine tune it or am I just SOL?

Thanks for the reply

 

[DSM90AWD]

For street tuning High S-AFC settings just keep subtracting out fuel 2% at a time until you start to see knock (in your case timing retard)..and then add some more in. I also have an EGT gauge for safety, but you'll see huge knock/low timing on pump before you start melting pistons.

Just a bit of advice.. a few weeks back I was able to tune my new setup to the bone in ~45mins on an local AWD Dyno (only charged me $60 ). That was IMO the best money ever spent on tuning as I could see the affects of my S-AFC changes on WB, EGT, timing, knock, HP/Trq safely at the same time.

 

[crashed97tsi]

See, I've done that too and I still get indications that the car is running rich. Is there anyway I could check to see if the stock regulator is getting overrun? Everytime my plugs are all black, not wet but definetely black. I'm changing my spark plug wires to a set of 8mm Accel's so maybe that is a contributor to the problem. It just seems weird because The car has ok power before 5500 Rpm's, then the car gets like a mini boost of power after until redline. When I look at the logger this is when my timing gets advanced, usually aroudn 14-16. Before that it is 12 if I'm lucky. O2's always in the .92-.96 range. When I get that good advance that is when my o2's are at .92v.

Anyways, I know this wasn't a tuning question so I'll leave it at that, but doesn't sound liek the engine is getting to much fuel in the lower rpms and then it is catching up in the higher rpms?

Yeah, I'll definetely do the dyno sometime soon, within 2-3 months. But only when I feel comfortable that the car is running correctly.

Thanks again for the hlep

 

[andymoraitis]

From my personal experience, overrun on the 190 is minimal at best, but you may see more overrun since you're rewired. It's the 255 that causes more severe overrun conditions when coupled with the stock FPR. Since I shun AFC's like the plague, I can vouch for the effectiveness of a chipped ECU. The fact that you're still running rich (carbon fouling on the plugs) is an indication that you haven't leaned out enough. Also, your timing maps look pretty low and you should see those rise once you follow DSM's recommendations.

The most effective solution however is to go with a chipped ECU and then use the AFC to make minor corrections. The great thing about chips is that you can have custom A/F ratios burned in as well as a host of other features like a knock value for your stock boost gauge and injector compensation. Coupled with an AFC, it makes for a very workable combination.

But to answer your question, it does sound like there's lower RPM overrun which becomes less of an issue as the boost catches up and consumes the excess.

Hope that helps,

Andy

 

[crashed97tsi]

I guess i have been out of the game for awhile, these chipped ecu's weren't really that big back then. You do need an Eprom ECU do get these custom chips burned right? Also, anyone got a link to one of these sights? Anythign that would make tuning easier gets a big in my book.

 

[DSM90AWD]

I guess i have been out of the game for awhile, these chipped ecu's weren't really that big back then. You do need an Eprom ECU do get these custom chips burned right? Also, anyone got a link to one of these sights? Anythign that would make tuning easier gets a big in my book.

DSM Chips or DSMLink are the best two option out there. Yes, you will need an EPROM ECU.

The big problem with tuning fuel with the SAFC is that you are "tricking" the ECU into thinking more/less airflow is actually being read by the MAS. The ECU uses these values not only for fuel compensation but also for timing advance. Taking too much fuel out will put you in a very aggressive timing map which would more likely cause knock.

The EPROM mods are ECU-level compensation so your will run like the 550s were the OEM injector (i.e. little or no adjustments on the S-AFC)

 

[90blacktsiawd]

Let me jump in here with alittle of my experience. I was having a hell of a time tryin to tune for my 650's with my maf-t. I ordered a stage 3 dsmchip compensated with extended fuel and timing maps as well as all the goodies. Literally i dropped it and and i could drive. It wasn't the best tune but it was good enough to get me around. From there i spent maybe an hour or so tuning with my maft and pocketlogger. A reburned chip would definately be worth your while. Hey crashed where abouts in bethlehem are you from?

 

[crashed97tsi]

RIght in between bethlehem and easton. Near Notre Dame high school if you know where that is.

 

[90blacktsiawd]

Ya i know where that is. Down off William Penn Highway. Do you by chance drive a red talon?

 

[crashed97tsi]

yep thats me, red 97 no wheels nothing like that. It's had a black hood for awhile, but thats going to be chanegd in a few weeks when I paint the car.

 

[90blacktsiawd]

Im pretty sure ive seen you around before. Was your car in a wreck before you got it?

 

[crashed97tsi]

Cool, I pmed you so we don't piss people off by having a casual conversation in the bolt-on forum.

 

[Bailzz]

Quick question, I have a 255lb, 550's and am purchasing a bigger turbo (probably PTE 50 trim) but am not worried about runnin its potential yet, just getting a good deal on one ( maybe gettin a T70 with gt35r BB internals and 20g housing, but that ones a little scary) and was wondering where I would need to go for managment. Money not really an issue but DSMLink seems like too much for me (still learnin everyday). S-AFCII (have done some tuning w/ 14b) and GM MAFT w/ translator, obviously I'm gueesing I'll need a AFPR as well and was planning on it ( didn't realize there was that much overrun). Is it easier to tune a larger turbo when running the GM MAFT? And will I be able to properly tune my car with just those for managment. FYI have FMIC, 2.5" IC piping, N1 turboback, Tubular exhaust manifold and O2, 2G TB elbow, Dejon 3" intake, 1G BOV. Kinda feel like I went wrong somewhere and wanted some .02 cents
Another question, SAFCII or GM MAFT w/ translator, or both whats best