Evo16g stock fuel

[eazy]

Hey guys, i just swapped out my cracked to hell 14b for the evo16g. Mods are 2.5 turbo back/ k&n/ BR uicp/ ported manifold, turbo is ported also....i wanna know what boost i can run with this turbo on my completely stock fuel(includeing pump). As of right now, its at 11psi. I searched and i found that 15psi on the 14b is the most you wanna go on stock fuel, i just wasn't sure if it was way less for the evo16g.

 

[RavenX]

11-14psi should be the max you should run on the stock injectors, pump, and smic unless you have a fmic its still the same anyway

 

[eazy]

Yeah i'm putting on my FMIC soon just waiting for the chance to, cool i might turn up the boost a little bit not sure. The car is hauling as is.

 

[DSMatMSU]

i was in the same boat last year, and bought an evo 16g.... i ran it for awhile, boosting something like 14 psi... i never raced it, and usually didnt boost very long, just enough to make happy.... just let it get me around.... the main reason i was so easy on it was because of boost creep... esp when it got cold out... so i couldnt really mash on the gas...

allthough i did have a re-wired walbro 190 fuel pump... at the time i had very similar mods uicp, 3" turbo back, intake pipe and a k+n... obviously youll never feel much difference in power till you get fuel.... this turbo really wakes up around 17 psi

 

[eazy]

Yeah exactly, I get no creep because the 2.5 turboback...but on the same note the 3inch is SICK! haha. I boost a solid 11 all the way till 6000 then it slowy creeps up 1 or 2 psi, which is way I don't wanna rasie it up. Are you running 17pounds? Hows that working out in terms of power.

 

[WatchItExplode]

I have been running 15 PSI on my 16G, stock fuel, and haven't had any problems. But I will admit that it isn't very wise, especially since I have no way to tell if it's knocking. I'll probably turn the boost down once I put my car back together.

 

[eazy]

its just one of those do at your own risk type things

 

[RavenX]

I have been running 15 PSI on my 16G, stock fuel, and haven't had any problems. But I will admit that it isn't very wise, especially since I have no way to tell if it's knocking. I'll probably turn the boost down once I put my car back together.

You don't have to worry too much the stock ecu will pull timing if need be anyway. You'll just get fuel cut

 

[kicker91laser]

That's wierd, you guys are getting 11 psi with the evo 3 16g w/2.5", and I have mine on my car, w/stock exhaust(had to replace dying 14b) and it runs between 12 and 13 psi. Oh well

 

[WhiteCloud]

I'm running 20 psi on my Evo 16g with stock fuel pump, Evo8 560cc injectors, and the stock sidemount on 93 octane. Perfect timing at 17-18 psi, timing gets pulled about 2* when I spike above 20 psi. Spend $150 tops on evo8 injectors, and you can run 18 psi on pump gas very safely--more if you install a pump.

 

[yugotdonkey]

I just installed my evo3 over the weekend. I have a walbro 190 lph for my feul system and i was getting zero knock at 15 psi, though I only pulled up to about 5k rpms and only once just to satisfy my temptation.

 

[eyebrowski]

I'm running 20 psi on my Evo 16g with stock fuel pump, Evo8 560cc injectors, and the stock sidemount on 93 octane. Perfect timing at 17-18 psi, timing gets pulled about 2* when I spike above 20 psi. Spend $150 tops on evo8 injectors, and you can run 18 psi on pump gas very safely--more if you install a pump.

This isn't sound advice, what might work on your fuel pump may not work on others especially since these cars are getting old.

Keep you boost low until you can mod your fuel system. Whats the point of turning it up if you are risking damage?

And it is VERY unsafe to rely on your ECU to pull timing in order to save your engine, you can very easily run dangerously lean and damage/blow an engine with the stock ECU. Fuel cut is based on airflow not your A/F so that point is void.

 

[RavenX]

This isn't sound advice, what might work on your fuel pump may not work on others especially since these cars are getting old.

Keep you boost low until you can mod your fuel system. Whats the point of turning it up if you are risking damage?

And it is VERY unsafe to rely on your ECU to pull timing in order to save your engine, you can very easily run dangerously lean and damage/blow an engine with the stock ECU. Fuel cut is based on airflow not your A/F so that point is void.

Haha damn medication don't listen to what i was saying

 

[WhiteCloud]

This isn't sound advice, what might work on your fuel pump may not work on others especially since these cars are getting old.

Keep you boost low until you can mod your fuel system. Whats the point of turning it up if you are risking damage?

And it is VERY unsafe to rely on your ECU to pull timing in order to save your engine, you can very easily run dangerously lean and damage/blow an engine with the stock ECU. Fuel cut is based on airflow not your A/F so that point is void.

You're right--I should have disclaimed my statement by saying, "This is what I was able to safely run on my car. Proceed similarly at your own risk."

Unless you run DSMlink on a 2g, all you can log (that tells you if you are running too lean) is timing. If the knock sensor detects knock, it pulls timing. If the knock sensor doesn't detect knock, it advances timing normally. For more concrete evidence, here are my logs, and you can interpret accordingly:

Relevant mods: EvoIII 16g turbo, SAFCII, 560cc Evo8 injectors, stock smic, stock fuel pump, 93 octane pump gas.

Run 1, 17 psi:
RPM *Timing O2 voltage
2416 32 0.96
2552 29 0.06
2616 28 0.12
2712 27 0.88
2812 24 0.92
2916 24 0.92
3028 23 0.92
3140 21 0.92
3272 20 0.92
3392 17 0.92
3524 16 0.92
3680 12 0.94
3840 11 0.96
4016 10 0.96
4228 10 0.96
4400 9 0.96
4604 10 0.96
4780 10 0.96
4960 10 0.96
5124 11 0.96
5296 12 0.96
5452 14 0.94
5800 16 0.96
5932 18 0.96
6084 18 0.96
6252 19 0.94
6388 19 0.94
6516 20 0.94
6664 20 0.94
6916 20 0.94

Run 2, 20 psi (might have creeped a little more, settled late at about 19 psi):
RPM *Timing O2 voltage
2580 33 0.12
2616 28 0.74
2708 27 0.88
2808 26 0.90
2892 26 0.92
2992 24 0.92
3096 23 0.92
3212 22 0.92
3328 21 0.92
3456 16 0.94
3716 13 0.94
3864 12 0.96
4032 10 0.96
4224 10 0.96
4396 9 0.96
4568 9 0.94
4788 9 0.96
4984 10 0.96
5144 11 0.96
5300 11 0.94
5428 11 0.96
5564 14 0.96
5712 16 0.96
5824 16 0.96
5972 16 0.96
6104 17 0.96
6252 17 0.94
6388 14 0.94

You can see the only place timing was pulled was at the very last part of the log--and this may be phantom knock of some sort, or some other factor that caused an unclear reading.

The only way to run boost safely is to log your own car. I just wanted to share my log because it shows that this turbo does not always require $500 in fuel mods to run 17 psi without blowing your engine. Eyebrowski's point is well taken--log your car, as it is the only way to find out if you're safe or not.

 

[sweet97]

Hey guys, i just swapped out my cracked to hell 14b for the evo16g. Mods are 2.5 turbo back/ k&n/ BR uicp/ ported manifold, turbo is ported also....i wanna know what boost i can run with this turbo on my completely stock fuel(includeing pump). As of right now, its at 11psi. I searched and i found that 15psi on the 14b is the most you wanna go on stock fuel, i just wasn't sure if it was way less for the evo16g.

Walbro is around $95. and joe mathews got EVO injectors for $150. That's cheap insurance to boost to 17/18 PSI. If you get the Walbro 255 ijnstead of the Walbro 190 be prepared to spend another $150. for a fullthrottlespeed.com bolt on AFPR.
I ran an EVO at 18-20 PSIbut i at least had 550cc injectors that cost me $185. used. Also a wideband a/f so I was sure not to run lean.
Just take it easy until you add a pump and injectors. Why take a chance? knowing you have another 50+HP waiting for those mods should give you the incentive to save the cash and install them!! Mark

 

[16g-95gsx]

Knock at the end of a log like that is never phantom knock. Check out the thread somewhere in this exact forum titled "turbo or fuel" I pretty much went over the whole Evo 16g and fuel thing.

 

[andymoraitis]

I was over at Buschur Racing the other having this exact same conversation with Dave Buschur. I have a 16G (not the EVO) and I run on a stock fuel pump and injectors as well. Dave basically said that 15-16 psi on stock fuel is OK, but that going above that can be suicidal. With a 255 fuel pump and stock injectors, the car should be able to go to 17-18 psi, but anything above that will require bigger injectors and an air/fuel controller.

 

[16g-95gsx]

Just because your timing curve continues to go up doesnt mean you arent knocking. A stock 2g timing map on its highest curve gives 16* of timing at most from 6000rpms+. This is assuming you flow 2.1g/rev, the problem with an Safc is that by lowering the airflow curve in order to trick the ECU into lowering fuel output, you can potentially dip below 2.1g/rev, and therefore run on a lower timing and fueling map. On the lower airflow maps, you have a much more agressive timing map. This means that while your timing may be linearly increasing, you may also still be knocking, and knock retard may be actually occuring, but at a lesser rate than the timing slope that the current timing map is giving you. Basically just because your timing is linearly increasing doesnt mean you arent knocking, so that log there really doesnt tell much as far as knock, it just shows that by the end of the run you most definately had significant knock (3* of retard alone is a decent amount), but you likely were knocking slightly before that as well, just it is harder to visualize it without a direct knock retard reading.

 

[eazy]

Lots of good info here guys, Any news on dsmtalk?

 

[WhiteCloud]

Interesting, 16-95GSX...that makes sense. Since 1 count of knock = ~0.3* of timing retard, I would have a significant dip in timing if I had significant knock, regardless of the timing map. I suppose the only way to tell for sure how lean I was running would be to have either DSMlink or a wideband.

Nonetheless, I believe 17 psi on this turbo, with upgraded injectors, is quite safe. I have only done a few WOT pulls at 20+ psi, and probably will refrain from doing more until I get my 190 lph in. But, if I were in danger of blowing my engine, I highly doubt the timing curve would be so smooth.

 

[16g-95gsx]

I agree, and the only reason I know all of this is because I own and have messed with dsmlink for over a year now. I agree that on 17psi that turbo shouldnt have a problem if the fueling is up to par. The guys with DSMlink have seen that turbo pushed to 22-23psi on pump gas with zero knock, the problem doesnt lie in the turbo, or the fueling, but rather the timing effects (problems) caused by skewed airflow readings from the Safc just like I mentioned. The ability to control timing through dsmlink is what allows that kind of boost without issue.

 

[kicker91laser]

I guess a maft will screw with timing just like an Safc.

 

[16g-95gsx]

Yes, the problem arises from the ECU seeing a lessened gram/rev value of air, thereby putting it on a more "####ified" timing and fuel map, which really means a leaner fuel map and a more agressive timing map because it thinks the car isnt being all that pushed.

 

[eyebrowski]

I guess a maft will screw with timing just like an Safc.

Yes it will.