Death of the mighty 4g63....maybe?

95TalonTsiAWDam · 01-31-2005, 07:48 PM

Yeah, got the news through my wife from my buddy's shop this afternoon. He got a chance to hook it up to the computer and the crank sensor is bad. So that usually means bad crank right? (Won't know till we replace it I guess or pull the engine and check the crank) its a 95 Talon Tsi AWD manual with 83k.
Well, I am preparing for the worse even if it's not so I am exploring replacing the engine idea. I know I just want to replace with another 7bolt (i know I know) since I am trying to get it going quickly as possible (daily driver). What I want to know is wheither or not the JDM engines (44-49k) are a direct drop in. I need a 95 or 96 since they went to a diff crank sensor in 97+ right (1g style)?
Any info or places as to where I can get a deal on one would be great too..
Thanks guys...

zxdude · 01-31-2005, 08:41 PM

i doubt that the actual crank is bad, its not really something that goes bad ... it most likely is just the sensor 89- 94 is 1G 95 + is 2G since I own a 1g it is a little different. eg... CAS

95TalonTsiAWDam · 01-31-2005, 08:56 PM

Sorry, I ment the *whispering* dreaded crankwalk. Yes I know the sensor is different for the 1gs, but I thought 95-96 were crank angle sensors and then in 97-99 they went back to the cam angle sensor like that in the 1gs. Just wanted to make sure that if I did get a JDM it would be a direct dropin. Sure I hope the sensor is just bad, but how do I tell except for pulling the engine and checking to see if it has endeed walked or just replace the sensor and see if it "eats" it again.

onegee · 02-01-2005, 01:32 AM

What makes you think its crankwalk?

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/w...crankshaft.htm

Read thru that and decide if you still think its crankwalk. I'd hate for you to pull the motor and all it was was the sensor.

I'd source another sensor and replace it first. It'll save you the headache from pulling the whole motor and buying a used JDM motor. You could actually buy a good 6bolt core and build it up for the price of a decent JDM motor.

But anyway, read thru that article. If you don't have a good understanding of what crankwalk is at the end of that, heres search results for the word "crankwalk":

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/sear...earchid=606329

Good luck and hope its not the big CW.

red91gst · 02-01-2005, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95TalonTsiAWDam

Sorry, I ment the *whispering* dreaded crankwalk. Yes I know the sensor is different for the 1gs, but I thought 95-96 were crank angle sensors and then in 97-99 they went back to the cam angle sensor like that in the 1gs. Just wanted to make sure that if I did get a JDM it would be a direct dropin. Sure I hope the sensor is just bad, but how do I tell except for pulling the engine and checking to see if it has endeed walked or just replace the sensor and see if it "eats" it again.

The 95-96 cars have a crank angle sensor on the front cover AND a cam angle sensor underneath the intake cam gear. The 97-99 have the same crank sensor, but have a cam angle senor on the opposite side, in the same location as the 1g. The 1g just combined the sensors, having both in the CAS unit. Its no uncommon for the crank sensor to go bad, I would replace it with a new or working used one first. Make sure you check the trigger plate for the sensor too, if its bent it can cause crank angle sensor failure. I know I have some used crank angle sensors laying around, if you want to try that send me a PM and I can send one out to ya.

You can also check crank endplay with the motor still in the car. You can get a semi accurate reading from crank/crank pulley movement, or drop the oil pan and measure right at the thrust bearing.

Nate
SBR

BrokenTsi · 02-01-2005, 07:41 AM

the crankshaft sensor is only for engine spark anyways, isn't it? If it went bad, change it and drive the car.........

95TalonTsiAWDam · 02-01-2005, 07:42 AM

Ahh Ok...I read in an article or post somewhere that when that sensor goes, it is possible that CW caused it. Lord I hope it is just a bad sensor and thats all I need. Although I have been reading about DSMs for awhile, I am still a newbie as I have just recently found the Talon. I got it for a steal ($400) from an auto auction, but it was dead. So I don't know the history of the car other than what I can see. I hope we can just replace that sensor and that is all it was. That'd be a cheap car.
Thanks for the info guys. I have done alot of searching and reading on the subject, but sometimes you get a clearer understanding by just asking the guys that know.
red91gst: I'd get one from ya, but I bought one this morning, thanks a mill.
Once again thanks for everything, I'll replace that sensor and see if I have trouble shift in left turns.
Later...

95TalonTsiAWDam · 02-01-2005, 11:49 AM

Had a chance to talk with my buddy during lunch and he said that he hasn't removed to sensor yet, but his scanner was telling him that it was deff. dead. He was under it looking and saw "welding" on the back side of the block...He thought maybe it had thrown a rod before and been repaired or something. If he got time this afternoon he was going to replace the sensor and see if it would crank.
On another note there is an ebay auction for a 96 7bolt with 2 days left. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33615

Think it is worth the hassel?

pimpinboudy · 02-01-2005, 12:19 PM

if it is just a daily driver then i would just get the one on ebay, but if you are looking to mod the engine at all then do it right and get a 6 bolt

Batmobile · 02-01-2005, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pimpinboudy

if it is just a daily driver then i would just get the one on ebay, but if you are looking to mod the engine at all then do it right and get a 6 bolt

agree
I would replace the motor anywas...ya got it at an auction? Hell that engine might have been pushed over the edge, along with the trany....you dont know..but good luck with it and good find !
Hope you enjoy it in the long run.

SpoOLxExO · 02-01-2005, 01:54 PM

Drop a freshened (Timing belt pullys, tentioner, seals, etc) 1g 6-bolt engine in your car if the engine has walked, "95TalonTsiAWDam". This will provide the resistance to CW again, and will give you all of ther power output you could take advantage of in a Dailey Driver type.

SpoOLxExO · 02-01-2005, 02:29 PM

95Talon, have you any updates that you can include before we were rudely interuppted twice!??

95TalonTsiAWDam · 02-01-2005, 02:31 PM

To the other that really have helped:
I have an 89 Camaro Iroc-Z that I swapped a 96 LT1 into with custom eveything. When i started that project the idea was to have a pretty badass street setup that I could drive daily if wanted. Turned out I put so much into it (yes waaaaaaay more than it is worth) as only a true car nut would, that it is pretty much a weekend warrior only now.
The reason I was considering jsut a 7bolt swap, was the fact that the camaro upgrade took about 1.5yrs to get everything just like i wanted (yeah right, I'll never be done). My goal for this car is a high 12s low, low 13s daily driver in the end. I know to do it right I should do the 6bolt swap, but man I don't want to go down that long road again. I haven't really researched the idea to any great extent, but I will. Thanks guys

SpoOLxExO · 02-01-2005, 02:37 PM

Not hard at all.

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/1gcasin2g.htm

Stock, balance-shaftless 6-bolt will get you alot better then your goal. (High12's dailey, High 11's at the track at least)

Peace

L2RTSiAWD · 02-01-2005, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsevo8

Why can't everyone be as civilized as 95talontsi? He straight out and said the I could be mistaken, instead of getting all sorts of bent out of shape?

Because you should think before posting.

Right above the reply box it says this.

3. No Guesses - if you don't know, don't reply - don't spread misinformation (no "I think" or "I guess" or "I've heard").

If you don't know don't post.

JessesTalon · 02-02-2005, 09:31 AM

On the other hand, I hope to the guy who started this thread that you don't listen to people like PatsEVO8 and hopefully its just your CAS sensor going bad. most likely it is because with a scan tool thats pretty much what you will see. Hopefully it works out well for you

SpoOLxExO · 02-03-2005, 06:14 AM

An assumption IS a guess. But seeing that its clear that there is no way you could've passed High-school english, I can't fault you for not knowing the difference. Nice try in sounding educated in your reply though, good effort.

Either way you are "Spreading Mis-information". Clearly breaking the rules. It doesn't phucking matter if your definition of an assumption is way off. You don't know what you are talking about, thats why we are so upset.

And that whole "as for the moderator" comment like you just wrecked house, that just made me laugh. You sure showed that moderator! :laugh:

PatsEVO8, I mean this from the bottom of my oil pan, STOP!

Again 95talontsiAWDam, are you gunna swap in that stock 6-bolt!? Were are trying to help you, not fight with this "patsevo8" clown remember?

L2RTSiAWD · 02-03-2005, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoOLxExO

Either way you are "Spreading Mis-information". Clearly breaking the rules. It doesn't phucking matter if your definition of an assumption is way off. You don't know what you are talking about, thats why we are so upset.

Exactly

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoOLxExO

PatsEVO8, I mean this from the bottom of my oil pan, STOP!

:laugh:

Patsevo8: I better not see you spread anymore gross misinformation.

95TalonTsiAWDam · 02-03-2005, 08:56 AM

Yeah I've got a pretty good idea after reading post for the past few months for who "knows" their stuff and who doesn't.
As for the 6-bolt swap, my plans are to replace this sensor and see if it will run, if so I will drive her and do mods that would be universal between the two engines (which is about all of them I think).
If that isn't it or if there is more to the problem, I will be talking with you guys in greater detail about the swap (and where I can find an engine). From what I have read so far, there are two ways to convert the 2g ECM so that it will read a 1g CAS sensor. Which way is better? Also, are there any other sensors, brackets, whatnot that need to be swapped?

SpoOLxExO · 02-03-2005, 09:23 AM

A few. D/S Engine mount trimming, accesories, etc.

Go ahead and fix that sensor and see if she goes down the road!

But to clarify, the only mods that won't interchange between a 6-bolt and 7 bolt are:

-Camshafts: you have to drill for CAS on 95-99 car w/ HKS cams. (The only cams to get)

-Sheet Metal Intake Manifold: 90-94 SMIM does NOT interchange with a 95-97 SMIM

Good luck bub, let us know how she goes!!!

L2RTSiAWD · 02-03-2005, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95TalonTsiAWDam

Yeah I've got a pretty good idea after reading post for the past few months for who "knows" their stuff and who doesn't.
As for the 6-bolt swap, my plans are to replace this sensor and see if it will run, if so I will drive her and do mods that would be universal between the two engines (which is about all of them I think).
If that isn't it or if there is more to the problem, I will be talking with you guys in greater detail about the swap (and where I can find an engine). From what I have read so far, there are two ways to convert the 2g ECM so that it will read a 1g CAS sensor. Which way is better? Also, are there any other sensors, brackets, whatnot that need to be swapped?

http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/article_1g2g.htm