just a question...

[98cLipsE]

why is it that all of you turbo guys are so avid about us selling our non turbos and getting a gst, gsx, or tsi??? i can understand that it makes more sense to just get a factory turbo car, but why sell what we already have as opposed to building it? so far i've taken the all motor route and gotten solidly into the 14's, and now i was thinking of going turbo, so here's the main question...why is it that you think a built 420a with a turbo cannot compete or is not as good as a factory turbo car? assuming i were to build my bottom end with lower compression pistons and forged rods and all that other stuff i don't care to list and putting say...a stage 2 from hrc and boosting 12-14 psi, would i not be able to hang? am i not getting something? it seems to me that with the headwork i already have, along with the aforementioned setup, and maybe a diff. set of cams i would be able to hang with, if not beat, most upgraded factory turbo dsm's...now i'm not being very specific at all with this setup, just using it as an example, am i wrong? i want arguments with a solid basis, not "it costs a lot", or "the 4g63 is the #@%#@%#@%#@%"....any arguments are very welcome, i am not talking #@%#@%#@%#@%, just asking to be proved wrong, thanks, peace...

 

[sleepinGSX]

Well the turbo motors, can make way more power, i dont think theres any reason to eplain this, its been proven so many times. If u wanna turbo your 420a do it, but its goin to cost like twice as much to make the same amount of power as a turbo motor will. Im not talkin about stock hp either im talkin big hp.

 

[turboholic]

Originally posted by 98cLipsE
why is it that all of you turbo guys are so avid about us selling our non turbos and getting a gst, gsx, or tsi??? ...

-If you re-read those posts, the person whom ask the question about turbo charging a N/A and get an 'sell the cars' reply, I can say with a 99.99% certainty that they were talking about a 90-92 car.

 

[larryd]

Look at it this way.. take what your going to pay for the mods you listed above to get your non turbo running 12-14psi which will more then likely yield you 13 second time slips. With that same $$ on a factory turbo DSM you can go much much further..

Overall its just more cost efficient to make a factory turbo DSM faster and not to mention the 4G63 being a factory turbo engine is more suited to making high levels of power then a non turbo 420a engine would be.

 

[98cLipsE]

i figured these are the responses i'd get....and i highly doubt that setup will yield only 13 sec. slips...it's ok, i didnt expect to get any strong arguments, the doubters just push me that much harder...peace fellas

 

[CBgst]

What do you plan on dropping the compression to. If your gonna drop it to the same as a turbo 4g63 then what makes you think that your 14psi will make more power than my 14psi. I'm not flaming either so don't get the wrong idea. If your gonna build the internals and drop the compression then I personally would be shooting for alot more than 14psi. Hey I welcome you prove the skeptics wrong. I don't dog any car that's fast. I'm just not rich enough to do what your doing so I just got a head start when I bought a turbo car. Mainly it's a money thing though. That's why people say get a turbo 4g63. With right amount of money any engine can be made to produce some good numbers. So if that's direction you want to take then I'll give you props, I just wish I had the kind of money you will have spent when your car is finished.

 

[CBgst]

Originally posted by 98cLipsE
i figured these are the responses i'd get....and i highly doubt that setup will yield only 13 sec. slips...it's ok, i didnt expect to get any strong arguments, the doubters just push me that much harder...peace fellas

One more thing I think it will take more than 14 psi to break into the 12s. Remeber one thing though in a fwd drive traction will keep you out of the 12s not horsepower. Good luck

 

[ChrisHKS]

just to put my 2 cents, a you could by a turbo car instead of a n/a but u would shell out around 2-3 grand just for the turbo verion....some people dont wanna shell out a large sum and would rather mod w/ that left over money.....keep makin that 420a go!

 

[Turbo Guru]

 

[LaserRST]

Another issue about that engine is platform. The internals head and intake design, will be hard to match as far as potential. You can make a Geo Metro's 3cyl do some hard core time slips, but getting it to that point will take reengineering the entire design of the engine. Your 420a has much more to offer than a Geo, and realistically I can see it doing good. But potential is easier tapped in the 4g63, thats probably the rhyme behind all the reason. Its just cheaper, easier, and more results occurr with the 4g63 because of platform. There is no real hidden rocket science. Though with your drive and determination, you may as well end up with quite the monster, and put a second thought in Turbo DSMers head when it comes to that engine....

...nah! 4G63s are where the hard core tuners are at!

Good luck and wish best results for you...see you at the track!!

 

[InFlames]

Originally posted by 98cLipsE
i want arguments with a solid basis, not "it costs a lot",

That is EXACTLY why everyone says buy a factory turbo car!! What the hell else to you think they say it for dude???

 

[larryd]

Originally posted by 98cLipsE
i figured these are the responses i'd get....and i highly doubt that setup will yield only 13 sec. slips...it's ok, i didnt expect to get any strong arguments, the doubters just push me that much harder...peace fellas

ok.. well when you run better then 13s with your 14psi then come tell us.. cuz Id be very interested in hearing about that.

I know of cars that rev higher, weigh less and running 8-10psi running low 13s.. I just dont see the n/a eclipse doing it.

 

[98cLipsE]

you guys seem to be so stuck on that 14 psi i said....that was just an example!! i don't know exactly how much boost i'll be able to push, but it will most likely be a lot more than that...we'll see...again, i'm not putting down turbo cars, i'm just really convinced that i can make the 420a a beast...i'll keep you posted, peace...

 

[rubbersidedown]

anything can be turned into a beast if you've got the $$

 

[CBgst]

Originally posted by 98cLipsE
you guys seem to be so stuck on that 14 psi i said....that was just an example!! i don't know exactly how much boost i'll be able to push, but it will most likely be a lot more than that...we'll see...again, i'm not putting down turbo cars, i'm just really convinced that i can make the 420a a beast...i'll keep you posted, peace...

Your probably right the 420a will probably be a beast but a I think with that same time, work, and money that a 4g63 would be more of a beast. Good luck though. Later

 

[GSX_RCR]

Originally posted by 98cLipsE
i figured these are the responses i'd get....and i highly doubt that setup will yield only 13 sec. slips...it's ok, i didnt expect to get any strong arguments, the doubters just push me that much harder...peace fellas

There is no argument whatsoever in the first place. You're the only one here that I see arguing with everyone else, even after we gave our opinions and views. It's like trying to squeeze a coconut in a keyhole, it's just not getting through.

Anyways, here's my 0.02. The 4G63 is a very stout motor that can handle 400+hp easily. STOCK INTERNALS. With the $1000 or so you're spending on forged pistons/rods, a 4G63 owner can use that and bolt on a 20G turbo. Then you'll need to spend another $2.5k-4k on a turbo KIT, they can spend half of that on fuel mods and an exhaust.... See where I'm going with this?

But if you really want to get technical. The 420A's head is more restrictive than a 1g 4G63 head. So you'll need more boost to = the 4G63's power outputs. For example, BOTH motors using 8.5 CR, stock heads/cams, 16G turbo pusing 15psi. Who do you think will make more HP? Sure you can throw in turbo grind cams, port the sh!t out of your 420A head and be able to pull out more hp...but the same can be done to the 4G63 and it'll still come out on top.

But go for the 420A/turbo route if you so insist on it. It seems like your mind is set either way despite our comments and opinions. Good luck, and let me know the final bill and timeslip. I'll have my $1500 in receipts and 12 sec timeslips waiting...

 

[98cLipsE]

Originally posted by GSX_RCR


There is no argument whatsoever in the first place. You're the only one here that I see arguing with everyone else, even after we gave our opinions and views. It's like trying to squeeze a coconut in a keyhole, it's just not getting through.

Anyways, here's my 0.02. The 4G63 is a very stout motor that can handle 400+hp easily. STOCK INTERNALS. With the $1000 or so you're spending on forged pistons/rods, a 4G63 owner can use that and bolt on a 20G turbo. Then you'll need to spend another $2.5k-4k on a turbo KIT, they can spend half of that on fuel mods and an exhaust.... See where I'm going with this?

But if you really want to get technical. The 420A's head is more restrictive than a 1g 4G63 head. So you'll need more boost to = the 4G63's power outputs. For example, BOTH motors using 8.5 CR, stock heads/cams, 16G turbo pusing 15psi. Who do you think will make more HP? Sure you can throw in turbo grind cams, port the sh!t out of your 420A head and be able to pull out more hp...but the same can be done to the 4G63 and it'll still come out on top.

But go for the 420A/turbo route if you so insist on it. It seems like your mind is set either way despite our comments and opinions. Good luck, and let me know the final bill and timeslip. I'll have my $1500 in receipts and 12 sec timeslips waiting...

actually the head's already ported as well as the intake manny, i have a set of cams already being made...i ported the head and manifold myself, so that cost...nothing...as for the pistons and rods, you're right on that $1000...i'm getting the turbo kit used from a friend for a whopping $1000...so all in all, i'm spending an incredible $2000 to run 12's as opposed to your $1500...and i have the luxury of saying that my car started non turbo...so i guess i'll have my $2000 in receipts and 12 sec. timeslips waiting right along with you...congrats, you saved $500

 

[GSX_RCR]

Originally posted by 98cLipsE

...and i have the luxury of saying that my car started non turbo...

And that's a plus because?....

But great job on the bargains.

Just remember that the bullsh!t stops when the greenlight drops.

 

[98cLipsE]

Originally posted by GSX_RCR


And that's a plus because?....

But great job on the bargains.

Just remember that the bullsh!t stops when the greenlight drops.

oh no doubt, but no b.s. here

 

[greathuskie]

youre not counting all the money youve already put into it

 

[98cLipsE]

Originally posted by greathuskie
youre not counting all the money youve already put into it

but that's all motor related money, it has nothing to do with the turbo debate

 

[Devicex]

Originally posted by 98cLipsE


but that's all motor related money, it has nothing to do with the turbo debate

But the only way you'd be able to run a turbo the way you are suggesting is because you've already spent that money on your motor. I'd say it has alot to do with it....

 

[CBgst]

Originally posted by 98cLipsE


so all in all, i'm spending an incredible $2000 to run 12's as opposed to your $1500...and i have the luxury of saying that my car started non turbo...so i guess i'll have my $2000 in receipts and 12 sec. timeslips waiting right along with you...congrats, you saved $500

What kind of turbo will you be running because 12 sec. time slips sound great but I think traction will be the limiting factor. Does that kit come with fmic because that's a steal if it does. I'm not saying 12s aren't possible with a fwd just harder than you think. That's goal to so good luck.

 

[98cLipsE]

Originally posted by Devicex


But the only way you'd be able to run a turbo the way you are suggesting is because you've already spent that money on your motor. I'd say it has alot to do with it....

how u figure? i havent built the motor yet, the only thing that will remain the same is the ported head and manifold....its like im starting from zero

 

[98cLipsE]

Originally posted by CBgst


What kind of turbo will you be running because 12 sec. time slips sound great but I think traction will be the limiting factor. Does that kit come with fmic because that's a steal if it does. I'm not saying 12s aren't possible with a fwd just harder than you think. That's goal to so good luck.

ill be starting off with the super 16g from the hahn kit...and yea it comes with front mount, only used for about 4,000 miles...i got lucky i guess...as for traction, thats one issue i agree on, i am gonna have some trouble, but with slicks i should do ok....we'll see