Stock fuel system limits

[Liger]

I am in the process of getting a 95-96 talon TSi AWD. I will be doing these following modifications to it:
HKS SSQV BOV
Recirculation Kit
Adapters
Dejon Tool CIP-2gA Intake
Extreme Technologies XBC
HKS Hiper Exhaust System
Extreme Turbo O2 Eliminator Downpipe
DN Performance T3/T4 Tubular Header
Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump (High Pressure)
GReddy 2G Intercooler Pipes
Turbonetics T3/T4E Turbochargers
HKS External Wastegates
Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch Set

I'm basically doing a stage 2 upgrade but including some stage 3 components like the exhaust and turbo since i will plan on doing a full stage 3 upgrade later on. I am not sure if i need to upgrade my injectors or fuel pump or ECU if i'm doing the stage 2 right now with these current parts.

 

[dsmturboawd]

would you like for me to correct your mod list before i answer your question?

 

[Liger]

Yeah go ahead and change the mod list, i know it's not perfect and this'll be my first big mod to a car, and i just realized that i was calling them stage 2 and 3 when they're 1 and 2. I just realized that i will be needing some new injetors, prob 650cc i'm guessing...

 

[dsmturboawd]

Originally posted by Liger
I am in the process of getting a 95-96 talon TSi AWD. I will be doing these following modifications to it:
HKS SSQV BOV
Recirculation Kit
Adapters
Dejon Tool CIP-2gA Intake
Extreme Technologies XBC
HKS Hiper Exhaust System
Extreme Turbo O2 Eliminator Downpipe
DN Performance T3/T4 Tubular Header
Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump (High Pressure)
GReddy 2G Intercooler Pipes
Turbonetics T3/T4E Turbochargers
HKS External Wastegates
Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch Set

1g blow off valve
stock intake
3 dollar homedepot boost controller
50 dollar muffler, trip to exhaust shop. you can get a full 3" exhaust for 200 dollars.
stock manifold
walbro 190
stock pipes, self modified upper pipe
i dont know what you mean by t3t4. thats like me asking you what kind of car you have and you saying "blue". theres like 10000000 combinations of t3t4. i suggest you just get a 16g.
internal wastegate.
act 2600

Originally posted by Liger
I'm basically doing a stage 2 upgrade but including some stage 3 components like the exhaust and turbo since i will plan on doing a full stage 3 upgrade later on. I am not sure if i need to upgrade my injectors or fuel pump or ECU if i'm doing the stage 2 right now with these current parts.

what are these "stages" you speak of?

 

[Liger]

Well here is a link to show u what the different stages are.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/2gturbo/

 

[JiveMasterT]

i dunno about you, but i feel that if you run around telling people you are doing stage 1 or stage 2 upgrades they will tell you to stop playing gran turismo. just say you are upgrading your fuel system, or your turbo, or your intake, or whatever. stages have different meanings to everyone. as for your mod list you will need something to control your injectors and fuel pump to have a complete system right there. as for the turbo, do more research. you dont need a massive turbo to get massive results.... a friend of mine with a gst got a b16g and i beat him the other day with my turbo back exhaust, intake, bov, and plug wires (if you consider them an upgrade...). you definately need to do a lot of research before you throw all of that stuff on your car.

you will definately need a new fuel system for any t3/t4 turbo. i am presuming you want a 50 trim, but you need to be more specific. i think a t28 turbo would be a good turbo for every day use.

 

[Liger]

Ok, i'll just list the parts next time. Do u think a T28 would be a better turbo for semi perfomance use over the T3/T4? and yes it would be a 50 trim

 

[kpt4321]

I can't tell you what turbo you need. However, I can tell you this:

The popular 50 trim combos (T3/T4) will give you full boost in the high 3000's or close to 4000. It will be capable of close to 500 whp on a good setup with good tuning.

A T28/16g is capable of around 350 whp, and will give you full boost in the 3200-3300 rpm range.

Your call.

 

[Stoner]

I agree with all said so far, and i was like you right before i got my car. Asking questions that now seem so obvious. Stick in there man and do a lot of research on the parts you would like to have. A 50 trim is a large turbo and unless you are wanting a full drag low 11 or 10 sec car I would get a big 16g or evoIII big 16G. There are guys running high 11's on these turbo's, which in my opinion is one hell of a street car!!
www.dsmtimes.org

I would suggest 1st thing do your maintanence on the car and slowly buy parts, tune, and then decide what you want to go with.

have fun and blow your life savings on go fast parts

 

[dsmturboawd]

Originally posted by Liger
Ok, i'll just list the parts next time. Do u think a T28 would be a better turbo for semi perfomance use over the T3/T4? and yes it would be a 50 trim

uh, you need to research ALOT before you start asking turbo questions like this.

 

[Liger]

I've done some research and still need to do a bit more but i'm stuck between getting the T3/T4 or the T28 because this will be a fast car, hopefully around the tens but that's later down the road. I want to avoid getting a FMIC as long as i can but i know that i'll need one most likely if i get a T3/T4. And just a side question, anyone ever put a lambo door conversion on their dsm?

 

[kpt4321]

Oh boy.

Step back for a minute here.

1. We don't care about doing some door conversion. Let's not even mention that again in this thread.

2. Running 10's is hard. you will NOT do it on a T-28, and not all T3/T4's will allow you to do it. You will also NOT run 10's without a FMIC.

 

[1fast97gsx]

get a 50 trim and a fmic on there. Maybe some arp headstuds? 3" intake pipe, 660 or larger injectors and an safc at least to tune them? Don't forget about a pocketlogger or something of that sort. Do a lot more research before you jump into this. I'd do a timing belt and a compression and leakdown test before anything else. Maybe consider some hks 272s?

 

[Liger]

Ok yeah the doors are done. I know that u wont be able to run ten's without a FMIC and that the T3/T4 has it's limitations. I'm just talking about right now. Later on i'll be doing serious mods to the car if i'm gonna run ten's but for now i'm trying to squeeze between 300-350 hp maybe, maybe a bit more without doing serious mods.

And yeah, 1fast97gsx, that's what i'm thinking of doing.

 

[dsmturboawd]

you can do 10's without a fmic.

 

[Liger]

It's possible but not as effective.

 

[dsmturboawd]

are you implying that a air/water ic isnt as effective as a large air/air?

 

[Liger]

No just forget what i said, i'm being stupid right now

 

[focusedrage]

there is realy nothing wrong with your originl mods list, although you should look into an intercooler and do some more research on turbos.

Personaly im not a fan of doing the ghetto, home depot, jury rig way of performance. so i dont think you need to change your whole mod list,


some times the cheep way is a good way if your short of cash, but if you want the parts you spec-ed out, then get them. RNR is a great down pipe by the way

 

[DSMJim]

Originally posted by Liger
I am in the process of getting a 95-96 talon TSi AWD. I will be doing these following modifications to it:
HKS SSQV BOV
Recirculation Kit
Adapters
Dejon Tool CIP-2gA Intake
Extreme Technologies XBC
HKS Hiper Exhaust System
Extreme Turbo O2 Eliminator Downpipe
DN Performance T3/T4 Tubular Header
Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump (High Pressure)
GReddy 2G Intercooler Pipes
Turbonetics T3/T4E Turbochargers
HKS External Wastegates
Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch Set

OK this isn't bad for somebody just starting out. It seems like you want to go fast, but don't really what you need. I would change it sorta like this...

- Greddy Type-S (no need for re-circ fitting)
- Dejon Tool Intake pipe
- Any old boost controller $40 or less whatever
- Cheapest O2 eliminator downpipe you can get
- Stock manifold, just port it out
- Walbro 255LPH HP.
- Dejon 2G intercooelr pipes with flange for greddy (since your getting your intake there too, just order together)
- Forced Performance Green turbo (It is a T3/T4 50Trim turbo made to bolt onto a stock manifold, comes with internal wastegate 34mm flapper mod recommended)
- ACT XTSS (Xtreme Pressure plate which is the 2600 and the SS Disc which is modified street disc)

Additions I would add
- Any type of front mount, the greddy big is popular and coming down in price, and their are many others. You really need this.
- 660cc Injectors. Check out www.fuelinjectorclinic.com If you get a 16G then 550cc will be ok, but really 660cc are the best no matter what.
- SAFC is a must for tweaking your setting and controlling the injectors.

Yes there have been cases of guys going super fast with 16G turbos on a car that is really well dialed in, but a larger turbo will get you more power easier without having to do crazy modifications to make the extra power. A larger turbo just flows more air from the get-go and will make more power with less other mods. In the end a larger turbo will always make more power at the same level of mods than a smaller turbo will. Why buy a smaller turbo to start and later wish you bought a bigger one? Know how many guys on here have T28 and 16G that are really happy with them? LOTS.. But there are quite a few who want more and wish they didn't have to buy a whole new turbo again and just bought a bigger one in the first place.

I am not dissing a 16G it's a great turbo and many guys have gone faster than me with one blah blah blah.. But I got to 12.5 easily with my 50trim on pump gas, almost with no effort at all. I wanna do high 11's this year with it on pump gas and should be able to do it. I seriously considered a 16G myself but just decided that I would spend the money and start with a better turbo and I am very glad I did now, trust me.

 

[Liger]

DSMJim, that's probably exactly what i'm going to do. I want to eventually get the car down to the 10's or so. I will have to definitely get a better FMIC though. Thanks for all the input
-Liger

 

[dsmturboawd]

you will not run 10's
you will not run 10's
you will not run 10's
you will not run 10's

 

[JiveMasterT]

he needs it to be a 10 second car cause he lost his old dsm in a race against an rx7...

"you owe me a 10 second car."

edit...
dont know why i said that. its late, im going to bed.

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

Someone forgot the AFPR... The 255 is gonna saturate the low end..

 

[Liger]

Uhh no, this will be a 10 sec car, i can pretty much assure u of that. We've already got american muscule sitting in the garage and i'm wanting to do imports since i've done enough american. FnF has basically nothing to do with my drive to get a "10 second car." I love to work on cars, imports in particular and do modifications to em and see how it turns out and all that stuff.