To FMIC or to SMIC I need help!!!!

[rripatti19c]

Hi Guys:

This is my first time posting and i wanted to say hello to all of you. After reading several posts over the past couple of days I am amazed at the amount of knowledge in here.

First a little background. I'm actually a recent convert (as of this January) to the DSM crowd. My previous ride was a 1988 Mustang 5.0lx hatchback that dynoed 401rwhp and did the 1/4 at 12.11@121mph (no traction).

After nearly wiping out one time to many on a corner, I decided to find a car that can actual hold the road.

After a lot of research I bought my 1990 Mitsubishi Eclispse GSX. The car is in incredible shape having been looked after by a maintenance freak.

Okay, here's my problem and dilemma. I have all the supporting mods (full exhaust, UIC, 95exhaust manifold etc) and I'm currently having my Frank19cjr rebuilt as the turbo seals let go. The only thing that is totally stock on my car is the factory SMIC.

I know there have been many treads on FMIC and such for my 1G car. But my criteria is not to have the best (ie Buschur, Indycore etc) intercooler out there, but one that will compliment my turbo nicely. I'd like to see low 12's out of this car.

So what do you think guys? What options to I have? Can i get away with a big SMIC? I'd rather do this since its cheaper and a LOT easier to install If so, from which company? and how much? Or is my only choice a FMIC?

And if i have to get an FMIC...i'd like to keep my a/c and oil cooler etc that comes on my 1990. Is that possible? Are there any kits out there where i don't have to clearance the bumper support or move the a/c, powersteering lines around?

My budget is around 800-900 (i'm saving some extra money to purchase an AFC and 550cc injectors at the same time, plus i'm having my turbo ported along with the rebuild) and i'd like to do it myself if at all possible. I am not the best when it comes to working with cars , but I'll give it my best with the information you guys can give me!!!!

THanks for listening to my rantings here guys!!! I'm just trying to make the best decision possible


hope to hear from somebody!!!

Raul

 

[jw]

There are intercoolers out there that will route the same stock IC pipes location. You will have find either a top-down flow design core or side-side flow but the endtank fabricated to have the outlet pipes routed on the same passenger side.

Check out RRE griffin core or turbochargers.com top-down flow core. I am sure AHP has something for you also and they do not need to move A/C or PS lines. They are meant for easy installation but the pipes are not shortest route possible and more pressure drop.

 

[rripatti19c]

hi,

thanks for the reply! So you think the big SMIC is just a wait of time? Yes i looked at the AHP products, it looked like a super good deal, i just worry that the piping is so long that how bad will the lag be?

thanks again!

 

[rdrkt]

Going with any sidemount intercooler is a waste. They just don’t get enough airflow and they are too small to dissipate heat quick enough. I had the had the spearco rre intercooler and it was ok but the way the pipes are routed in the IRC kit is much nicer. The piping is shorter and there will be a lot less lag that way. The IRC should also cool a bit better than the RRE unit. With the price of the two being relatively close I would go with the IRC.

 

[rripatti19c]

hi rdkt

by IRC i assume you mean Indy Race Cores right? Do you know how much the complete kit is and what is involved in mounting the kit including any hidden extras like an extra slim cooling fan?

again, sorry guys for all the questions, i'm just so knew at this car

keep the responses coming

 

[rdrkt]

here is the link for pricing. You should be able to do everything for under a thousand. You have to really cut the crap out of the front bumper support. You will also most likely have to run your ac fan infront of the radiator due to space limatations.

 

[jdmawd]

rripatti19c:

hey man welcome aboard its always a good idea to know theMAX cfm you turbo is flowing and then find a I/C that can match the flow of that particular turbo or just a bit more. the cost of a good smic is a round 750 (I THINK). the cost of the IRC Street core is like $850. the front bumper will have to be cut pretty good. not really a big deal to do it just sounds like a big job. Slim fans are a must (which are included in the IRC kit) I run a 12"&13" spal slim fans with my IRC. I have my fans wired to run continuously so I don't think cooling will be a problem and all the ac stuff is still in place. IM also a mustang convert

 

[Blixx]

Originally posted by jdmawd
<snip> I run a 12"&13" spal slim fans with my IRC. I have my fans wired to run continuously <snip>

jdmawd... Are you running the 12&13 on the stock radiator? And by continous do you mean they run ALL the time, regardless of temp... Or that when the temp turns them on they both run. Last one... did you move the P/S line? Just curious because I'm planning on the IRC street core as well for a 16g =)

Blake

 

[jdmawd]

yes its the stock rad, i really need to replace it (it looks like crap). the fans run all the time not because i modified the wiring it has always run that way, with the stock fans since i first got the car i have no idea why they run they just do. i think its a good thing so ill just leave it like it is

 

[rripatti19c]

hi jdmawd, thanks for welcoming me !

Yeah i checked the specks on my turbo and it should flow 550cfm properly prepped. so i was looking for a IC that flows in the 600 range.

i knew you had to clearance the bumper support, but i had no idea you had to cut the bumper itself??!!!

its not that i don't mind the work, its just that the car i bought is in PRISTINE condition, from the looks of it, the guy i bought it off never drove it in the snow, rain or anything...looks like a weekend toy.

so i'll move/cut, drill anything underneath the bumper itself, but i'm afraid if i cut the bumper, itmight loose some of its structural integrity and maybe begin to sag or something?
correct me if i am wrong guys!!!!

 

[IPT]

This is a little off subject, but if you are redoing your turbo have it upgraded to something else. I have know a couple of people that have had the frank jr. and they were not very happy with them. You could change it to a 20g, green, mutt ect.. Just a thought

 

[rripatti19c]

sigh, if only i could, but due to the lack of seroius funds (i'm hitting grad school this september and need to start saving) i can only afford the rebuild ($275) if i want to get an intercooler and upgraded fuel injectors and fuel management.

after i get all that next year i will be able step and get myself a nice little Force green internal waste gated turbo

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by rripatti19c
i will be able step and get myself a nice little Force green internal waste gated turbo

Big power and internal wastegates do not go hand in hand. Just a thought.

 

[rripatti19c]

hmm,

correct me if i am wrong (after all i am coming from a supercharged V-8 hehe) but wouldn't the internal wastegate suffice providing that the exhaust flow is sufficient to support the intended horsepower, forexample correctly sized flapper door, o2housing and so on?

my problem with the external is that i highly doubt it will pass our roller emission testing here in NY (as in if the external wastegate is activated to any significant degree they will think that i sprung an exhaust leak!!)??

also bear in mind that if i can get into the low 12's i'll be satisfied. i don't want to go for more then that as i don't think my 3bolt rear, transfer case or transmissin will hold to the abuse?

let me know your thoughts guys!! thanks!

 

[rdrkt]

Your right we don’t have emissions here and if we did the external is only one of many problems. If you are only shooting for 12s you wont need it your right.

 

[jdmawd]

but wouldn't the internal wastegate suffice providing that the exhaust flow is sufficient to support the intended horsepower, forexample correctly sized flapper door, o2housing and so on?

it sure will all you need is a 39mm internal flapper, it all starts with the size of the gate hole

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

People say get an external gate because most internals are 30-32mm
So people get 35-40mm ext. But some turbos have 39-40mm flapper that works just as well as a 35-40mm ext.

Later,

 

[Ludachris]

back to your original question.... it's going to be tough to get a good FMIC with the money you've got saved. The Indy kit is $850. But when you look at the options you'll need - 2 slim fans $90 each, and the J-pipe for 14b turbo install $65, you're over $1k already. You can probably find slim fans at a local shop and save some money, but you'll still likely come out at about $1000, maybe a little more with shipping.

Do you guys think he could achieve his goal with the stock side mount or maybe even Indy's modded side mount or Dejon Tool's modded side mount? His budget looks pretty tight. I'm thinking it'll be tough to run 12's without a FMIC, but definitely possible.

 

[rdrkt]

Shepard ran 11s on a 16g and a stock sidemount so it is possible. The problem is that without the intercooling he will need high octane gas to reach his goal. Even then he will have a real problem with his intercooler heatsoaking on the street after running it hard for a while.

 

[jw]

It can be done without using slim fans. Fabricate your own pipes and remove all A/C components (who need A/C anyway ). The cheapest way is to get DIY pipes and elbows from RRE. You will only need 2 x 45 degree elbows, 2 x 90 degree elbows and perhaps a 180 degree U bend depending on how you fabricate the J-pipe to fit the IRC core. A few clamps and truck rad hose.

 

[rripatti19c]

Sigh....

Alright guys, after much thought and and listening to what you had to say, I have decided to bear down and melt the ol' credit card.

I'm thinking that I'll spend a little more money now and not have to deal with another IC again should i think that 12's start to feel slow.

So this is my current purchase list which i'll order as soon as my tax returns come back (thank god for those!):

1. Buschur Racing FMIC
2. Super Apex AFC
3. 550cc injectors
4. Get this all tuned by either Jeff Hill at Turbotrix or maybe this other shop called Pruven Performance in Ct once I install the stuff.

This works out to be around $2,000 dollars in parts And maybe $300 or so to get it tuned wiht a wideband O2 sensor.

Whoo boy, a lot of money to be sure, but I think its worth it. What do you think guys? Hopefully i'll be satisfied with this.



Again thanks for all your suggestions and help!!!
Raul

ps. anyone live near or around the NYC area or westchester?

 

[purplefever]

sorry this reply is so late but welcome to the board. good choice on the fmic. i am going with the indy race core myself, which i ordered today. it was about $1200, since i got the polished model. i am sure you will be satisfied with your choice tho.
it touches my heart to see mustang owners convert to DSM owners

 

[rripatti19c]

thanks for the welcome!

Yeah the BR FMIC is around that price range and boy will it hurt to buy, but i think it will be worth it and i will let you know what i think of it as soon as i get it.

Regarding the mustang convert...welll lets just say that I might get one again as a WEEKEND car at some oint in the future. THey are huge fun, huge power but i just can;t deal with it on a daily basis. they suck in handling, their brakes (87-93 models) are none existent and waay too much attention

Still, i have to tell you i love this Eclispse, so much more refined and when i lay on it in first gear, the traction is simply unbelievable with AWD!!!!!! :laugh:

Raul

 

[NJGSX96]

Why not go with the Indy Race Core kit? Save yourself a couple hundred $$$. It uses the same exact core as BR and comes with all the goodies (slim fan, coupler, pipes, etc).

Give DS Motorsports a call.... 908-362-5532 and ask for Nate. He's got some good prices and can help you out.

Regardin the Frank Jr 19C, my friend has one on his 90 GSX. He has the IRC FMIC, 550s, etc, etc.... he just ran a 12.7@109 on 19psi with some OK tuning and a crappy 1-2 shift. Car easily has a mid to low 12 in her at 19psi and you still can boost more.

If you go to Pruven, you will be very pleased. They have an AWD dyno and Dan is a great guy who will tune the car excellent or you. I am going up there soon.... once I get my problems with my 1G sorted out.

 

[rripatti19c]

Hi Rich,

thanks for replying! I actually did call Nate, and even emailed him but he never got back to me??

maybe he's busy, i'll try again tomorrow. In anycase, i was looking at the IRC kit in detail and it seems that with all the extra options i need, i'll be within 1-200 bucks of the BR FMIC kit. THe one thing i do like about the BR kit is that the piping route is super short.

By the way, thanks for telling me the story about your friends 19c! It certainly helped me feel better about keeping my Frank Jr.

By the way, how are Dan's prices for the parts i need (FMIC, AFC, 550 inj.) at Pruven? Do you feel him to be an honest guy and one that won't hike up the price for the hell of it?

Oh yes, since you live in NJ, how come you don't go to Jeff Hill? I guess what i am basically asking is who do you like more, Jeff Hill of Turbotrix or Dan at Pruven performance to work on your car and for prices.

THe one thing cool about Pruven defiintely is the AWD dyno

Raul