Dead tranny or install error?

[BlackMount]

so, This talon I bought (its DSM #3) has auto tranny. but it was out. I put the transmission in, everything is hooked up, but no matter which gear I'm in the car always acts as if it's in nuetral. it never try's to go anywhere. Parking gear isn't there either.

I have a manual tranmission I'm getting ready to swap in but at this point in time I really need a car cause I just got into a wreck with my DD so now I have no transportation and it would save alot of time and money if for now I could get the Auto tranny to work.

anyone know what this could be? both axles are intact so I doubt that a broken axle is the issue.

help ASAP

 

[sniver]

It not having park really makes this one interesting. If it was a bad senor/solenoids, or slipping, it would have park and be stuck in 3rd. If it had blown out friction surfaces,or a bad torque converter it would just act like neutral, but it should still have park.

It leaves me thinking its in neutral, stripped out shifter stud, forgotten/unconnected cable, broken cable,barring all that it could be something internal.

Did you try removing the cable linkage from the tranny, and actually manipulating the gear selector, to see if you can find park? Maybe it improperly adjusted, and has a bad pump,bad converter,or not enough fluid.

 

[bwhite]

Not putting torque converter bolts in might cause this. But pull a trans line off and see if you got any pressure. If there is none or very little, you could have a bad pump(or no fluid). That still doesnt explain no park. Thats a manual fuction I believe.

 

[sniver]

Not putting torque converter bolts in might cause this..

I guess the no torque converter bolts also sounds like a perfect explanation for the free revving, if we had a flexplate with a ring gear like a small block chevy!

Its not the torque converter bolts, ring gear is on the torque converter You wouldn't be able to start the car, and the motor wouldn't have enough rotating mass. And lastly the torque converter could be missing, and it still wouldn't be missing park.

Sorry to rain on your parade.



I do agree with this \/ however!

But pull a trans line off and see if you got any pressure. If there is none or very little, you could have a bad pump(or no fluid). That still doesnt explain no park. Thats a manual fuction I believe

Just crap luck possibly. Broken parking pawl maybe,with a side of;a bad pump,clutchpack,internal leak,empty?

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Fsm's what's wrong,who's the culprit chart. On top look at park doesn't hold, and movement isn't possible. It points to poor cable adjustment.

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Here is how you ensure your cable is properly adjusted as per the fsm

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Shows the system in park, doesn't show the mechanical portion of park.

 

[BlackMount]

It not having park really makes this one interesting. If it was a bad senor/solenoids, or slipping, it would have park and be stuck in 3rd. If it had blown out friction surfaces,or a bad torque converter it would just act like neutral, but it should still have park.

It leaves me thinking its in neutral, stripped out shifter stud, forgotten/unconnected cable, broken cable,barring all that it could be something internal.

Did you try removing the cable linkage from the tranny, and actually manipulating the gear selector, to see if you can find park? Maybe it improperly adjusted, and has a bad pump,bad converter,or not enough fluid.

Yes. I removed the shift linkage and tried moving it by hand. Still no change.

Not putting torque converter bolts in might cause this. But pull a trans line off and see if you got any pressure. If there is none or very little, you could have a bad pump(or no fluid). That still doesnt explain no park. Thats a manual fuction I believe.

I think the guy who did the tranny had no idea what he was doing.

I think I should just go ahead and swap it out with the manual trans I got.

Thanks for the help tho guys.

 

[sniver]

Pedal assembly is the worse part if you have to swap it. You"ll have to cut the master cylinder hole, and the manual shift linkage hole. And you'll have to do something with the key cylinder so you can get the key out.

Out side, theres a bushing on the crank that you have to use a dowel and grease to get out. Flywheel bolt are different than flex plat bolts obviously. Motor mount brackets are different for the front and the rear, and possibly the rear mount(haven't verified this). You'll have to jump the auto gear selector terminals so it thinks its in neutral. You'll have no provision for reverse with the auto harness.

I think you have a fwd right? but if it's an awd don't forget the transfer case is different. Rear end is different.

If you have all the parts needed,and your very good with our cars, it's not that bad. The only real issues I have is my mounts don't line up quite right. And please don't try switching engine harness'. You"ll run into one plug , c-67 i believe, that will ruin your life.

 

[BlackMount]

Pedal assembly is the worse part if you have to swap it. You"ll have to cut the master cylinder hole, and the manual shift linkage hole. And you'll have to do something with the key cylinder so you can get the key out.

Out side, theres a bushing on the crank that you have to use a dowel and grease to get out. Flywheel bolt are different than flex plat bolts obviously. Motor mount brackets are different for the front and the rear, and possibly the rear mount(haven't verified this). Transfer case is different. Rear end is different. You'll have no provision for reverse with the auto harness, and you'll have to jump the auto gear terminals so it thinks its in neutral.

If you have all the parts needed,and your very good with our cars, it's not that bad. The only real issues I have is my mounts don't line up quite right. And please don't try switching engine harness'. You"ll run into one plug , c-67 i believe, that will ruin your life.

This one is Front Wheel Drive non turbo, and I am very good with 1G's. so half of the stuff you listed my car does not have.

Everything is the same, and like you said the worse part is installing the clutch pedal, clutch Master Cyl, etc. Everything else so far is the same.

 

[sniver]

You beat me before i could fix my post!

 

[BlackMount]

It's kool.


So I'm half reconsidering the swap.

I started messing around with the Auto Tranny a little bit. and I got some questions

I got a axle to start turning VERY slowly in reverse but it that was if I revved it up a little. and I noticed a rattling kind of sound when it started turning.

I'm wondering if maybe somethings up with the tourqe converter? I know when you put the TC in the tranny its suppose to slide back and click 3 times or something like that, which I did but while installing the tranny It kept sliding out but I'd put it back in, and right now it seems\looks like its in all the way but I could be wrong. someone give me some tips on resettting it or double checking it? I really don't want to pull the whole tranny off then put it back on if this isn't my problem.

I pulled the oil pan, and the back plate off the transmission and it is VERY clean inside. and it was definetly rebuilt at somepoint because there are tool marks on certian parts of it. and Also I got it to go into park just fiddling around with it.

 

[the_mork]

Broken differential or broken transmission pump. The torque converter should be most of a thumb's length into the bell housing, and if the transmission is bolted up then it will be, but that doesn't mean it was in right when you started which can easily break the pump.

Does the transmission whine at all? Did you ever hear a loud pop when you were putting tightening up the transmission, did you suck the transmission on with the bolts? If the answer to any of those is yes then you almost certainly have a bad transmission pump.

A bad differential will act like neutral no matter what and will likely allow the axles to have some play in the housing if you try to wiggle them.

 

[BlackMount]

Broken differential or broken transmission pump. The torque converter should be most of a thumb's length into the bell housing, and if the transmission is bolted up then it will be, but that doesn't mean it was in right when you started which can easily break the pump.

Does the transmission whine at all? Did you ever hear a loud pop when you were putting tightening up the transmission, did you suck the transmission on with the bolts? If the answer to any of those is yes then you almost certainly have a bad transmission pump.

A bad differential will act like neutral no matter what and will likely allow the axles to have some play in the housing if you try to wiggle them.

How hard is the pump to replace? and would it really cause all of these things?

 

[the_mork]

The pump is relatively easy to replace. The transmission has to come out but then an m10x1.25 (IIRC) bolt can thread into two of the bolt holes and a long pry bar braced on the case with a hammer, or a slide hammer can be used to jar the pump loose.

Can it cause all of those problems? It wont cause the no park problem but you said you were able to get it into park by fiddling with it so I'm not considering that a symptom, as for everything else, yes. When the pump is bad there is no fluid pressure in the transmission at all and there will be no movement.

 

[BlackMount]

The pump is relatively easy to replace. The transmission has to come out but then an m10x1.25 (IIRC) bolt can thread into two of the bolt holes and a long pry bar braced on the case with a hammer, or a slide hammer can be used to jar the pump loose.

Can it cause all of those problems? It wont cause the no park problem but you said you were able to get it into park by fiddling with it so I'm not considering that a symptom, as for everything else, yes. When the pump is bad there is no fluid pressure in the transmission at all and there will be no movement.

I thought I had it in park because I couldn't turn the axle by hand, but then I started putting the wheel on and the wheel was spining so still no park.

PO said that it was doing this SAME thing before he rebuilt it, and after he rebuilt it. So maybe the diff is messed up somehow...idk but i'm getting tired of messing with it. I think I should just suck it up and do the manual swap and punch holes in my firewall and yadadada.

 

[the_mork]

This is a misconception.

Park will only lock one wheel at a time because of the open differential so if both wheels are in the air then one can still move though the diff will still switch which wheel it is depending on positions. Put the car down on the ground to see if it is in park or have someone else hold one wheel while you mess with other.

 

[BlackMount]

Still nothing , oh well I've begun tearing in to the swap anyways. already got the Auto Shifter Assembly and linkages out, and the 5 speed linkages and shifter assembly in.

 

[sniver]

Well the best of luck to you, shouldn't be to hard after the pedals are done.

Sent from my Droid

 

[BlackMount]

yeah pedals, and clutch master cyl are all I'm missing but I know where to get them so. yeah. should be runnin here soon.

right now I'm stuck on the flexplate to crankshaft bolts but I got something that will hopefully brake em loose.

 

[sniver]

Make sure its a 6 point impact socket that way you have little chance of rounding them. You will never be able to drill them out if that ever got messed up. Impacts the way to go, but a big rachet and hammer will also work in a pinch.

Sent from my Droid

 

[BlackMount]

ended up borrowing my buddy's little electric impact drill thing. its made by dewalt and looked pretty manly so I thought i'd try it and it worked pretty well..

got all but 2 off, and those were the 2 that i started stripping before. so we took an angle grinder to em and cut the bolt right down the middle of the head, then the bolts became finger loose, and i destroyed the flexplate XD it worked tho.

 

[sniver]

Well whatever works. Honestly never even considered cutting the heads an option. Nice to know in case it ever comes to that.

Sent from my Droid

 

[BlackMount]

Well whatever works. Honestly never even considered cutting the heads an option. Nice to know in case it ever comes to that.

Sent from my Droid

well everything is put together now

Tranny is, axles are in, big brake kit is installed, (need some better rotors tho) everything is hooked up

just lacking starter (which i will get today) and clutch master cylinder and clutch pedal assembly.

 

[sniver]

When you source a pedal assembly, do yourself a favor before you put it in. Push the pedal down, it will spring down, use a screwdriver or similar through a hole to hold the arm there.(the part the master connects to) and pull up pedal to see if it has slope.if not let it spring up, hold it, and push the pedal to see if it moves that way. If there is slope you might not be able to adjust the master properly. Just a tip so you don't have to install the pedal assembly twice if it is worn out.

Sent from my Droid

 

[BlackMount]

When you source a pedal assembly, do yourself a favor before you put it in. Push the pedal down, it will spring down, use a screwdriver or similar through a hole to hold the arm there.(the part the master connects to) and pull up pedal to see if it has slope.if not let it spring up, hold it, and push the pedal to see if it moves that way. If there is slope you might not be able to adjust the master properly. Just a tip so you don't have to install the pedal assembly twice if it is worn out.

Sent from my Droid

thanks